Mixed tee matchplay

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NearHull

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A recent Junior Interclub match at our course. The Junior Girl played from the Red Tees and her opponent, a Junior Boy played the Yellow tees, with the correct adjustments to their respective handicaps. Hole 4 is a Par 4 from Yellow and a Par 5 from the Reds. No shots were given on this hole.
The Junior Boy scored 4 and the Junior Girl scored a 5. Is the hole halved as both players parred the hole or does the Junior Boy win as he took less strokes. Where is this covered in the Rules?
 

Steven Rules

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It is not covered in the Rules. It needs to be covered in the Terms of the Competition.

In my experience the result is based on score for the hole in relation to par. So, in this case, the hole would be halved/tied.
 
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NearHull

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It is not covered in the Rules. It needs to be covered in the Terms of the Competition.

In my experience the result is based on score for the hole in relation to par. So, in this case, the hole would be halved/tied.

Thank you. I am currently updating our Terms of Competitions now and this is one of the issues to be included and I was intending to put it in “as a half” but as i couldn’t find anything in the Rules, I was looking for confirmation that I hadn’t missed it or misunderstood the mixed matchplay sections.
 

wjemather

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It is the number of strokes taken that matters - par is irrelevant. Adding an additional allowance for par differentials on each hole would effectively give more/less strokes than the player is entitled to over the course of the round.
 

Steven Rules

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It is the number of strokes taken that matters - par is irrelevant. Adding an additional allowance for par differentials on each hole would effectively give more/less strokes than the player is entitled to over the course of the round.
Did you miss that it is match play? Or have I missed the point?
 

wjemather

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Did you miss that it is match play? Or have I missed the point?
As an example, say par for the man is 70 and par for the woman is 75, and CR=Par for both. Then the woman is receiving 5 strokes for the mixed tee adjustment.
If you then say individual holes are assessed against par, then the woman would effectively then receive an additional 5 strokes over the course of the round - a total of 10 strokes. This would not be equitable.
 
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NearHull

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It is individual matchplay. The handicap adjustment is for differences for CR. It rounds up to 1 shot for the ladies as it happens - but it is irrelevant for the question. Is the hole halved or won by the Junior Boy?
 

chellie

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It is individual matchplay. The handicap adjustment is for differences for CR. It rounds up to 1 shot for the ladies as it happens - but it is irrelevant for the question. Is the hole halved or won by the Junior Boy?
Surely if it's not a shot hole then the boy won as he took less shots.
 

Colin L

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Did you miss that it is match play? Or have I missed the point?
As said, par doesn’t have anything to do with it. The mixed tee adjustment is based on the difference, if any, between the course ratings of each course. Regular stroke play and match play are the same. Par enters the calculation for Stableford.
 

wjemather

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It is individual matchplay. The handicap adjustment is for differences for CR. It rounds up to 1 shot for the ladies as it happens - but it is irrelevant for the question. Is the hole halved or won by the Junior Boy?
On each hole, the least number of strokes (after handicap strokes received have been applied) wins the hole.
 

wjemather

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As said, par doesn’t have anything to do with it. The mixed tee adjustment is based on the difference, if any, between the course ratings of each course. Regular stroke play and match play are the same. Par enters the calculation for Stableford.
It should be noted that there is also a par adjustment for 9-hole matchplay, as par is accounted for in the Course Handicap calc.
 

Colin L

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Thank you. I am currently updating our Terms of Competitions now and this is one of the issues to be included and I was intending to put it in “as a half” but as i couldn’t find anything in the Rules, I was looking for confirmation that I hadn’t missed it or misunderstood the mixed matchplay sections.
You’ll find it in the WHS Rules of Handicapping and examples of it in the CONGU Guidance document. All you need, if anything, in your TOC is that mixed tee allowances are applied in accordance with the WHS Rules.
 
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Did you miss that it is match play? Or have I missed the point?
Rule 3.1a is pretty clear,
Result of Hole and Match
(1) Winning a Hole. A player wins a hole when:
  • The player completes the hole in fewer strokes (including strokes made and penalty strokes) than the opponent,
  • The opponent concedes the hole, or
  • The opponent gets the general penalty (loss of hole).
 
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NearHull

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Rule 3.1a is pretty clear,
Result of Hole and Match
(1) Winning a Hole. A player wins a hole when:
  • The player completes the hole in fewer strokes (including strokes made and penalty strokes) than the opponent,
  • The opponent concedes the hole, or
  • The opponent gets the general penalty (loss of hole).
This is where I have my doubts, does it apply for a mixed tee and subsequently differing SI and par. After all the Junior Boy only needs to play to his handicap to par 4 the hole yet the Junior Girl needs to play one better than her handicap to take 4 strokes and birdie the hole. Each plays their own course to their own SI and Par..
 
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NearHull

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You’ll find it in the WHS Rules of Handicapping and examples of it in the CONGU Guidance document. All you need, if anything, in your TOC is that mixed tee allowances are applied in accordance with the WHS Rules.
Could you help me with the Reference in the Rules of Handicap please
 
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This is where I have my doubts, does it apply for a mixed tee and subsequently differing SI and par. After all the Junior Boy only needs to play to his handicap to par 4 the hole yet the Junior Girl needs to play one better than her handicap to take 4 strokes and birdie the hole. Each plays their own course to their own SI and Par..
You said in your OP "with the correct adjustments to their respective handicaps". If that is true then you have taken into account the different SI's and par is then irrelevant.
 
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NearHull

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You said in your OP "with the correct adjustments to their respective handicaps". If that is true then you have taken into account the different SI's and par is then irrelevant.
I see your point. But not fully convinced yet. I've just asked the Area Handicap Advisor for help.
 
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