Mixed 4BBB handicap allowances?

[delc]

Today our Foxes team played our club's ladies in 4BBB format. The ladies were getting two extra shots because their SSS is one greater than the mens' and because we were playing off the gent's stroke indices. The question is: what is the correct handicap allowance calculation? Is it:
a) (handicap diff x 0.9) + 2
b) (handicap diff + 2) x 0.9?

 

[chellie]

Today our Foxes team played our club's ladies in 4BBB format. The ladies were getting two extra shots because their SSS is one greater than the mens' and because we were playing off the gent's stroke indices. The question is: what is the correct handicap allowance calculation? Is it:
a) (handicap diff x 0.9) + 2
b) (handicap diff + 2) x 0.9?

Option B is what I was told to use.

 

[delc]

Option B is what I was told to use.

We went for option a) because nobody knew the answer, not that it will normally make much difference. But is there anything in the rules or CONGU that defines the correct calculation. Even with all their extra shots, we still beat the ladies by 4 1/2 to 1 1/2 btw. Our match was the half and it was extremely close and hard fought: I had one of my best rounds of the year so far.

 

[rulefan]

I thought I posted this yesterday but it seems to have gone missing.

CONGU FAQ

For Mixed partner better- ball competitions the ladies' handicaps should have the SSS adjustment added before the recommended fraction (90%) applied. If these are Stableford or Bogey Competitions players should score against a common Par and Stroke Index (either the Men's or Ladies', although the Ladies' is recommended).

 

[duncan mackie]

Today our Foxes team played our club's ladies in 4BBB format. The ladies were getting two extra shots because their SSS is one greater than the mens' and because we were playing off the gent's stroke indices. The question is: what is the correct handicap allowance calculation? Is it:
a) (handicap diff x 0.9) + 2
b) (handicap diff + 2) x 0.9?

Rulefan given you the relevant reference - but I still don't understand why they were getting 2 shots; surely they should simply get the difference in SSS in matchplay ?

 

[delc]

Rulefan given you the relevant reference - but I still don't understand why they were getting 2 shots; surely they should simply get the difference in SSS in matchplay ?

They got one shot as a right because of the difference between the gents and ladies SSS, plus a courtesy shot because the matches were played using the men's stroke indexes.

 

[rulefan]

plus a courtesy shot because the matches were played using the men's stroke indexes.

What has the stroke index assignment got to do with relative difficulty? That's why the stokes are given or received.

Courtesy strokes should no longer have any part in the game.

 

[louise_a]

I have to agree with rulefan, it doesn't really matter at what holes you get the shots as long as you get the right number of shots. No need for additional courtesy shots after the ones to adjust SSS.

 

[rulefan]

They got one shot as a right because of the difference between the gents and ladies SSS, plus a courtesy shot because the matches were played using the men's stroke indexes.

Would the men get a courtesy stroke if the ladies SIs were used?

 

[delc]

Would the men get a courtesy stroke if the ladies SIs were used?

Probably not, but the extra courtesy shot was agreed by the two captains before the match started, as it is considered that playing off the men's stroke indexes at our course is disadvantage to the ladies.

 

[Colin L]

Probably not, but the extra courtesy shot was agreed by the two captains before the match started, as it is considered that playing off the men's stroke indexes at our course is disadvantage to the ladies.

Does anyone at your club have a rational justification for that? You receive a number of strokes allocated at particular holes. That means that at each of those holes you have a one stroke better chance of winning the hole. In terms of balancing a deficit in playing ability, what does it matter where they occur?

It just seems patronising to me.

 

[duncan mackie]

Does anyone at your club have a rational justification for that? You receive a number of strokes allocated at particular holes. That means that at each of those holes you have a one stroke better chance of winning the hole. In terms of balancing a deficit in playing ability, what does it matter where they occur?

It just seems patronising to me.

The worst part about it is that it ends up confusing things in the future - in fact the argument put forward probably has its roots in a stableford situation.

For some reason ( probably as much to do with more experienced women playing mixed events and the wide range of systems for allocating shots in mixed events over the last few decades) there is always a lot of discussion/confusion over this issue. When called in to clarify what should be I'm always faced with the argument "that must be wrong because we always ...".

It's always a shame because it happens at the start and regardless of the correct answer someone feels hard done by.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

This wouldn't happen in a single sex club

 

[FairwayDodger]

It's always a shame because it happens at the start and regardless of the correct answer someone feels hard done by.

Ain't that the truth! #stillAnnoyed

 

[delc]

Does anyone at your club have a rational justification for that? You receive a number of strokes allocated at particular holes. That means that at each of those holes you have a one stroke better chance of winning the hole. In terms of balancing a deficit in playing ability, what does it matter where they occur?

It just seems patronising to me.

I didn't see or hear about any of our lady members complaining about this! 😀

 

[Colin L]

I didn't see or hear about any of our lady members complaining about this! 😀

But has any rational justification been put forward for it?

 

[delc]

But has any rational justification been put forward for it?

The way it's always been done? Although this may date back to 3/4 handicap difference! 😎

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The handicap difference in regards 3/4 or 90% has no bearing on courtesy shots

And in the answer to the OP - adding in the HC difference is always after the courtesy shots - a change from 3/4 to 90% didn't make a difference to that.

 

[rulefan]

CONGU says they are not courtesy shots. They are an entitlement.