Match play off different tee’s?

[Jhhome22]

Apologies if this has already been asked somewhere, but I played a match yesterday at a course where the whites & reds have different Par (70 & 72) and different SI - how should we have worked out shots given & where they are applied with us playing off different tees, because it confused us both.

 

[LincolnShep]

I only know half of this answer but I'll get the ball rolling. You ignore par and look at the differences in Course Rating. The player on the harder tees (higher CR) gets the difference added to their handicap, then you look at the difference between the two handicaps to determine the number of shots received. Then you scratch your head and wonder about the different stroke indices and I'm afraid my knowledge runs out at this point! Someone with more brain cells will be along in a minute.

 

[Swango1980]

There seems to be no official guidance as to what stroke indices you use, as I asked this fairly recently. However, it makes sense to choose the indices relative to the player getting shots.

For example, we played a match against a man and a woman, both of who had shots on us.

For the lady, her Playing Handicap (90% of course) was 18 higher than mine and my partners equivalent. However, she got 20 shots, as the ladies course rating off reds is 2 higher than the mens off whites.

When giving shots, our male opponent got shots using the White Indices. The female opponent got her shots based on the Red Indices.

 

[wjemather]

From CONGU's guidance: "the competitor playing over the higher rated course receives the difference in the CR values added to the Course Handicap after the application of the stroke allowance". So,

Playing Handicap (lower/est CR) = (Course Handicap x allowance)​

Playing Handicap (higher CR) = (Course Handicap x allowance) + difference in Course Rating​

​

Stroke indexes appropriate to the set of tees being played by the player receiving the strokes apply (NB in better-ball, players receiving the same number of strokes could receive them on different holes if playing from different tees).

 

[upsidedown]

Apologies if this has already been asked somewhere, but I played a match yesterday at a course where the whites & reds have different Par (70 & 72) and different SI - how should we have worked out shots given & where they are applied with us playing off different tees, because it confused us both.

Calculator in bottom right hand corner
https://www.congu.co.uk/whs/

 

[Slab]

Posting to bookmark

 

[Jhhome22]

Ah ok that makes sense & great to have a calculator too!
once you’ve worked out the shots, do you still play off the par for each hole & apply strokes accordingly? (This is what confused me a bit last time, playing the same hole as both a par 4 and par 5 & who scored better against par taking the hole?)

 

[Swango1980]

Ah ok that makes sense & great to have a calculator too!
once you’ve worked out the shots, do you still play off the par for each hole & apply strokes accordingly? (This is what confused me a bit last time, playing the same hole as both a par 4 and par 5 & who scored better against par taking the hole?)

Forget par. It is just shots had. Doesn't matter if it is a par 4 for one player, par 5 for another

 

[Colin L]

Ah ok that makes sense & great to have a calculator too!
once you’ve worked out the shots, do you still play off the par for each hole & apply strokes accordingly? (This is what confused me a bit last time, playing the same hole as both a par 4 and par 5 & who scored better against par taking the hole?)

Par has nothing to do with match play. Holes are lost, won and halved by the number of strokes played. Unless both players have the same playing handicap, one of them will get a stroke at one or more holes according to the stroke index. At these holes it is their net score that counts. If I take 5 strokes at a hole and you take 5 but are receiving a stroke at that hole, you win the hole with a net 4. At holes where you don't get a stroke, it's the number of strokes played. My 5 to your 6 wins the hole for me. 5 each and the hole is halved. Forget par, it really is that simple.

 

[Ser Shankalot]

Par has nothing to do with match play. Holes are lost, won and halved by the number of strokes played. Unless both players have the same playing handicap, one of them will get a stroke at one or more holes according to the stroke index. At these holes it is their net score that counts. If I take 5 strokes at a hole and you take 5 but are receiving a stroke at that hole, you win the hole with a net 4. At holes where you don't get a stroke, it's the number of strokes played. My 5 to your 6 wins the hole for me. 5 each and the hole is halved. Forget par, it really is that simple.

So does that mean in matchplay there is no concept analagous to "picking up" in Stableford. Ie. If 2 new high handicap players are against one another, then the hole continues until someone finishes, whether it takes 4 shots or 10 shots?

 

[Foxholer]

So does that mean in matchplay there is no concept analagous to "picking up" in Stableford. Ie. If 2 new high handicap players are against one another, then the hole continues until someone finishes, whether it takes 4 shots or 10 shots?

Yes! That's always been the case. Matchplay is a 'Strokeplay' competition - between 2 sides - though a player/side can concede the hole at any stage, though the hole doesn't necessarily need to be 'finished'.
And ColinL is correct (as per normal)! Matchplay using different sets of tees can provide some 'seemingly unfair' holes, but there should be a compensation elsewhere that 'balances' any advantage an individual hole offers to either side.

 

[rulefan]

So does that mean in matchplay there is no concept analagous to "picking up" in Stableford. Ie. If 2 new high handicap players are against one another, then the hole continues until someone finishes, whether it takes 4 shots or 10 shots?

Or one of them concedes.

 

[ForeRight]

From CONGU's guidance: "the competitor playing over the higher rated course receives the difference in the CR values added to the Course Handicap after the application of the stroke allowance". So,

Playing Handicap (lower/est CR) = (Course Handicap x allowance)​

Playing Handicap (higher CR) = (Course Handicap x allowance) + difference in Course Rating​

​

Stroke indexes appropriate to the set of tees being played by the player receiving the strokes apply (NB in better-ball, players receiving the same number of strokes could receive them on different holes if playing from different tees).

Does your final sentence re deciding which stroke indices to use appear anywhere in either of the WHS manuals?

 

[jim8flog]

Does your final sentence re deciding which stroke indices to use appear anywhere in either of the WHS manuals?

Now edited

There is no set rule even pre WHS.

 

[rulefan]

I appears on page 42 of the Guidance under 4BBB match play.
"In 4BBB format players score using the card and SI appropriate for the tee they are playing from."
But I see no reason why it shouldn't apply in Individual match play.

 

[rulie]

I think it's quite obvious that the person receiving the strokes should receive them on the SI appropriate to him or her. If there is a lady receiving strokes, it's quite logical in should be in accordance with the ladies' SI.
What logic is there to support her receiving strokes according the the men's SI?