Marking ball on the apron

[sawtooth]

I was just off the green today and marked the ball as if I was on the green ie marker behind the ball. It was a friendly match played in good spirits but one of our opponents politely reminded me thats not the way to mark a ball on the apron.

I realised the mistake but anyone know the ruling/penalty (i guess there is one) in stroke and matchplay? It dawned on me that I probably make that mistake a lot in winter with preferred lies. I want to be clear because next time it may matter.

 

[DCB]

If it's marking because of preferred lies then there isn't a problem if you adhere to the local rule.

If there are no winter rules in place you can't mark the ball and lift it unless it's on the green. or unless asked to move it by someone playing a shot. In this particular instance you can't clean the ball.

 

[sawtooth]

If it's marking because of preferred lies then there isn't a problem if you adhere to the local rule. .

Its preferred lies and the rule is normally pick up, clean if you want then replace in the usual imaginary 6 inch semi circle. I assume thats not a local rule but an R&A rule? I'm not sure but thats what we do at our place for preferred lies.

Trouble is I marked my ball on the apron by placing the marker behind the ball (like I would on the green). Do you know the ruling on that?

 

[Foxholer]

I'd interpret what you have done as ok while 'preferred lies' are applicable. Replacing in same spot is merely a specific case of the 'within 6"' that is allowed. There's no specification of how soon after marking. lifting and cleaning it needs to be replaced.

I'd venture to suggest that there were many more players really applying that LR wrongly - either by not marking before lifting or by simply rolling the ball with a club!

 

[Lump]

Its preferred lies and the rule is normally pick up, clean if you want then replace in the usual imaginary 6 inch semi circle. I assume thats not a local rule but an R&A rule? I'm not sure but thats what we do at our place for preferred lies.

Trouble is I marked my ball on the apron by placing the marker behind the ball (like I would on the green). Do you know the ruling on that?

You can mark the ball how ever you want.

 

[BTatHome]

Sawtooth, what exactly do you believe the problem to be?

The way I am reading your OP is that you/others believe that marking on the apron is ok, when preferred lies are not in place?

 

[sawtooth]

Marking and replacing ball method is different on the green than on the fairway (preferred lies). Right?

I used the method for marking the ball (normally used on the green) , to mark the ball on the fairway/apron.

 

[MashieNiblick]

As far as I am aware, in relation to the method used to mark a ball that is to be lifted, the Rules make no distinction between whether the ball is on the green or if it has to be marked off the green - e.g because it might assist or interfere with another player, or if preferred lies are in operation.

Rule 20-1 and Note and Decision 20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball

FAQ also helpful.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=20&subRuleNum=1

So far as preferrred lies are concerned the R&A has a specimen local rule which says

“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

Note: “Closely-mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes."

 

[BTatHome]

Ok, so OP was just worded in such a way I read it incorrectly.

Anyway I can't see what the issue would be, unless the person was trying to say that you could end up placing your ball at the very extremes of the semi circle, and hence be slightly outside of the "within6inches" rule. To me that would be the most pedantic to ruling and would be open to some serious measuring to determine if it was actually an infraction.

If you want to be ultra safe then place your marker in front of the ball, it won't stop you from going outside the 6" inches, but if your someone that always places on the very extreme of 6 inches then you'll be covered. Alternatively just make sure your ball is only ever placed within 4 inches of your marker

 

[sawtooth]

Ok, so OP was just worded in such a way I read it incorrectly.

Anyway I can't see what the issue would be, unless the person was trying to say that you could end up placing your ball at the very extremes of the semi circle, and hence be slightly outside of the "within6inches" rule. To me that would be the most pedantic to ruling and would be open to some serious measuring to determine if it was actually an infraction.

If you want to be ultra safe then place your marker in front of the ball, it won't stop you from going outside the 6" inches, but if your someone that always places on the very extreme of 6 inches then you'll be covered. Alternatively just make sure your ball is only ever placed within 4 inches of your marker

Question.

When I go to replace my ball on the fairway/apron does the ball need to in line or behind the marker in a semi circle pattern?

If yes.

Then if I marked my ball by placing a marker behind it (as you would if you were on the green) When I go back to replace the ball on the apron/fairway I am actually placing the ball in front of the marker, which is wrong for preferred lies ....or is it?

 

[BTatHome]

Why would you be replacing it infront of the marker?

I would replace it along side of the marker (with the marker in the centre of the semi circle flat side). Can't see how anybody can possibly get upset by marking and replacing in such a fashion. Seems to me to be people trying to squeeze a quarter of inch out of the marking.

 

[sawtooth]

Why would you be replacing it infront of the marker?

I would replace it along side of the marker (with the marker in the centre of the semi circle flat side). Can't see how anybody can possibly get upset by marking and replacing in such a fashion. Seems to me to be people trying to squeeze a quarter of inch out of the marking.

Sorry mate I'm not explaining this very well I might need to get a graphic or two off the web.

I was off the green but I marked the ball and replaced the ball as if I was on it. Marker behind, pick ball up, put ball back in front of marker, pick up marker. I had the putter in my hand and I'm so used to marking a ball like that.

 

[fundy]

simple question sawtooth, did you replace the ball nearer the hole than where it was when you lifted it? If you did then its a penalty, if you didnt then its fine (no way you can have been outside 6 inches from original spot)

 

[BTatHome]

As above, if you attempted to mark and replace as you would on the green normally, then can't see what the issue is ...

 

[sawtooth]

simple question sawtooth, did you replace the ball nearer the hole than where it was when you lifted it? If you did then its a penalty, if you didnt then its fine (no way you can have been outside 6 inches from original spot)

This might help....

http://www.nambourgolfclub.com.au/l...spx?page=RULE:+Preferred+Lie&ComeFromCat=1025

Fundy, to answer your question I put the back down in front of the marker (nearer the hole) as you would if you were on the green. But I wasnt on the green. The ball went back on the same spot, but if you look at the graphic on the link above it shows what I am trying to say. When you mark the ball on the fairway/apron the ball goes back behind the marker.

I dont know if this is a breach or not.

The most concise way of putting my question is can I use the same method for marking a golf ball on a green as I do with marking and replacing a ball on fairway/apron in winter (preferred lies)?

 

[fundy]

If you have not replaced the ball nearer the hole then you have breached no rule of golf (the same spot is perfectly fine). That diagram is great but actually the front line of the semi circle should be level with the equator of the ball not the back of it really

 

[BTatHome]

As fundy says !

The "safest" method would be to follow that picture as you can't get the "no nearer the hole" wrong, but sticking it back in exactly the same position is no penalty.

 

[sawtooth]

Thanks for all your replies.

I normally mark it like shown on the diagram but because I had the putter in my hand and I was just off the green I went into autopilot and marked it like I was actually on the green.

I can still see this causing an argument because if I do this again and someone watches how I put the ball back (in front of the marker) they may pick me up on it. The diagram suggests that the ball should be put back or in line with the marker not in front of it. Although that was where the original ball was!

 

[Crow]

I think that's just a poor diagram and the inclusion of the tee where the ball is has confused the issue.

In the text above it says "s/he must place it on a spot within one card length of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green”.

As Fundy says, as long as you're not nearer the hole then you're fine, but in the interests of diplomacy I'd do it as your partners request! After all, it's only a game and the difference will be less than an inch.

 

[BTatHome]

Diagram is wrong

If your placing it back in the same place then the diagram suggests it would be wrong, but the rules of golf would say it was perfectly legal. If you decided to place it 4 inches to the right in front of your marker then you could also be perfectly legal (if you placed it precisely) but run the risk to being closer to the hole.