Marking another player's ball on a Call Up hole

[Imurg]

Watching the golf in Dubai just now and Dan Hillier drove the green on the 2nd, a drivable par 4 and,musically, a call up hole.
I don't think his ball was in the way of any players in the group on the green but if it was....would they be able to mark it and replace it?
Hillier is 350 yards away and can't give permission....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Would there not have been a ref or other official with each group able to communicate (they would each have ‘walky-talkys’ to call up a ref if necessary). Doesn’t help on the general question on whether there is any circumstantial exception to the basic rule you mention.

 

[Colin L]

It's not really a rules problem. The lifted ball has been moved by an outside influence. Once the first group has putted out, whoever lifted the ball replaces it and its owner might not even know it had been done.

I've never been convinced that calling up achieves anything other than bunching up on the next holes.

 

[Tashyboy]

Once played with a guy at our place. One morning when it was frosty he drove our 8th green he didn’t think he had but I saw the ball roll into the green then the three guys look at it. When we got down he was mortified as he thought it could have hit one of the three guys. Eventually we caught them up and he apologised. They were not bothered one bit, there only question was “ did you make eagle”. He didnt.
He did say that now he knows he can drive the green when it is frosty he wouldn’t play that tee shot again until the green has cleared. The hole is actually called the “ ice house”. It has an ice house in the woods on the rhs so has always been the coldest part of the course.
What I find odd is if an hole is drivable, risk or reward, why would you go for it when folk are on the green. If it was a par three and you were firing tee shots in it would kick off big style.
That said I once saw “ Beeeeeeeeeeeeeef” drive a par four at Woburn ( I think it was) pond in front of green. Those stood on the green looked at him with daggers when the ball landed with a thump.

 

[Slab]

It's not really a rules problem. The lifted ball has been moved by an outside influence. Once the first group has putted out, whoever lifted the ball replaces it and its owner might not even know it had been done.

I've never been convinced that calling up achieves anything other than bunching up on the next holes.

Call up on a pro event definitely works (in my limited experience)

Pace flows much better compared to waiting

 

[Colin L]

Call up on a pro event definitely works (in my limited experience)

Pace flows much better compared to waiting

That's interesting to hear. Anyone know if any studies have been done?

There is also, to my mind, a safety issue. It seems odd to require players to stand aside while another group is required to fire balls into an area close by.

 

[doublebogey7]

It's not really a rules problem. The lifted ball has been moved by an outside influence. Once the first group has putted out, whoever lifted the ball replaces it and its owner might not even know it had been done.

I've never been convinced that calling up achieves anything other than bunching up on the next holes.

I have played a number of course where it is expected on par three's which has never made any sense to me. However we are talking about a short (avarage for most of us on here) par 4 here in a pro event which seems to make a little more sense, when walking just from tee to green will take almost as long as the players in front will take to put out and move to the next tee.

 

[Imurg]

It's not really a rules problem. The lifted ball has been moved by an outside influence. Once the first group has putted out, whoever lifted the ball replaces it and its owner might not even know it had been done.

Am I right that there is no penalty for marking and lifting another player's ball without authorisation.? You're an outside influence so replace and no damage done..?
If so...why are you not allowed to mark and lift without authorisation?
Seems pointless.

 

[3 jabber]

Call up holes are often used on short par 4's where it is safer to stand at the back of the green than on the next tee if the tee is 'in the firing line'

 

[Slab]

That's interesting to hear. Anyone know if any studies have been done?

There is also, to my mind, a safety issue. It seems odd to require players to stand aside while another group is required to fire balls into an area close by.

Yeah point to note is that players and caddies need to know where to stand on call up hole to work properly
I saw two caddies standing in totally wrong place for call up one day
The pros know exactly where to position themselves and caddy needs to be with them

 

[D-S]

In normal club golf, the safest place to stand on a call up hole is just behind the pin.

 

[chrisd]

We have one fairly short, and down hill, par 4. From the whites it's 323 yards and I've certainly driven it a number of times and obviously the real big hitters can do it more frequently. Its defence is that's its a very very tight line down the first 150 yards or so. We've had it as a " call through" hole at times but that hasn't worked, but generally, if you can't drive it then it's ok to tee off, if you can drive it you wait. I can only remember on one occasion in my 24 years at the club a ball going through above waist height, generally any ball that gets to the green from the tee is going to trundle through the green on the ground.

So, I don't see any likelihood that it'll become a call through hole again as players clearly didn't want it to be so. We do, of course wait until all the players in front are on, or past the green before teeing off.

 

[rulefan]

Am I right that there is no penalty for marking and lifting another player's ball without authorisation.? You're an outside influence so replace and no damage done..?
If so...why are you not allowed to mark and lift without authorisation?
Seems pointless.

Presumably you are suggesting that another player in another group should be penalised? What is the difference between the other player and a spectator or a dog?

 

[Neilds]

In normal club golf, the safest place to stand on a call up hole is just behind the pin.

At Stockwood Vale, near Bristol the 17th is a par 3 down the hill with the 18th tee right next to the green. The club have put up a net to stand behind whilst players play the 17th before you go and tee off on the 18th.

 

[rulie]

Am I right that there is no penalty for marking and lifting another player's ball without authorisation.? You're an outside influence so replace and no damage done..?
If so...why are you not allowed to mark and lift without authorisation?
Seems pointless.

Yes, you are correct. There is no penalty to the player/person who marks and replaces the ball under these circumstances, nor is there any authorization required for the player/person to do so.

 

[rulie]

Yes, you are correct. There is no penalty to the player/person who marks and replaces the ball under these circumstances, nor is there any authorization required for the player/person to do so.

Just be aware that my answer (above) is meant for forms of stroke play. Match play is different - the opponent does require authorization from the player to mark and lift the player's ball, otherwise the opponent incurs a one stroke penalty.
In terms of replacing the ball, the player (or their partner) or the person who marked and lifted it may replace the ball (both forms of play).

 

[clubchamp98]

In pro golf it’s not a problem.
But most call up holes I’ve seen have a fair bit of risk or reward and rough or trees along them so if you lose your ball you have time to look while the game in front holes out.

 

[Steven Rules]

Rule 14.1b is very clear. The player’s ball may be lifted under the Rules only by the player, or anyone the player authorises, but such authorisation must be given each time before the ball is lifted rather than given generally for the round. As has been pointed out, there is no penalty (in stroke play) for breaching this requirement. (sigh)

Having said that, 14.1b is clearly not intended to cover the scenario being discussed in this thread - marking and lifting a ball from another group, such as in a call-up situation.

 

[D-S]

Rule 14.1b is very clear. The player’s ball may be lifted under the Rules only by the player, or anyone the player authorises, but such authorisation must be given each time before the ball is lifted rather than given generally for the round. As has been pointed out, there is no penalty (in stroke play) for breaching this requirement. (sigh)

Having said that, 14.1b is clearly not intended to cover the scenario being discussed in this thread - marking and lifting a ball from another group, such as in a call-up situation.

If a rule has no sanction at all as you describe, is it a rule or just advice / best practice?

 

[DickInShorts]

If a rule has no sanction at all as you describe, is it a rule or just advice / best practice?

Presumably it’s there because there is a penalty in matchplay?