Marking another player's ball on a Call Up hole

[Steven Rules]

If a rule has no sanction at all as you describe, is it a rule

Rule 14.1b has a sanction (one penalty stroke) if the player’s caddie lifts the ball when not allowed to do so.

Presumably it’s there because there is a penalty in matchplay?

Rule 9.5 adequately covers the situation and penalties for a ball lifted or moved by the opponent in match play without any need to resort to 14.1b.

 

[clubchamp98]

Would the COC cover it.
If you go for the green you agree to your ball being marked by the game in front if its interfering with their line.

Sanctions would stop people doing it and be counter productive.

 

[jim8flog]

It's not really a rules problem. The lifted ball has been moved by an outside influence. Once the first group has putted out, whoever lifted the ball replaces it and its owner might not even know it had been done.

I've never been convinced that calling up achieves anything other than bunching up on the next holes.

Ditto to that comment. We have a a hole where various new members, managers etc try to bring it in and it has caused more problems than the one it is trying to overcome.

 

[jim8flog]

That's interesting to hear. Anyone know if any studies have been done?

There is also, to my mind, a safety issue. It seems odd to require players to stand aside while another group is required to fire balls into an area close by.

Following on to my previous comment two of the biggest problems used to be the stupidity of those already on or or near the green - standing in places where they were in danger of being hit and leaving trolleys in the way of the following players shots.

 

[rulefan]

Our 3rd hole is straightforward par 3. By convention it was a 'call up'.
A new manager realised that the putters lost ground on the group ahead whilst they were standing around. The players on the tee now closed in on the putters. The congestion caused on that hole continued for many holes following.
The new manager issued a 'directive' that players should putt out and "clear off out of the way". It worked

 

[Eesat 90210]

Ditto to that comment. We have a a hole where various new members, managers etc try to bring it in and it has caused more problems than the one it is trying to overcome.

Which hole out of interest?
The 9th, or the very narrow par 4 on the back 9 when you come back over the road, or possibly 17th I'm guessing?

 

[jim8flog]

Which hole out of interest?
The 9th, or the very narrow par 4 on the back 9 when you come back over the road, or possibly 17th I'm guessing?

The 15th, par 3 down the hill.

 

[rulie]

In professional events, call-ups are used to alleviate temporary problems, and abandoned when the problem has been resolved. Think no. 9 on the Old Course - it tends to bunch up behind, so the referees will implement a temporary call-up, with the referees present and doing the organizing, not the players.

 

[Eesat 90210]

The 15th, par 3 down the hill.

Ah yes.
At first glance I would think that would be a sensible call up hole, but I'd guess there's already groups getting bunched up on the reachable par 5 16th?

 

[jim8flog]

Ah yes.
At first glance I would think that would be a sensible call up hole, but I'd guess there's already groups getting bunched up on the reachable par 5 16th?

The problems are

Players standing in silly places at risk of being hit by those teeing off behind them.
Players leaving their trolleys all over the place with the potential of stopping/deflecting an incoming ball.
When playing the 16th yellow tee you have other players milling around near the 15 green.
When playing the white tee players walking on to the green in front of those teeing off the 16th tee.
Players having to wait on the 16th tee for those in front to be out of the way which just moves the wait from the 15 tee to the 16th tee and actually does nothing to speed up play.

 

[Eesat 90210]

The problems are

Players standing in silly places at risk of being hit by those teeing off behind them.
Players leaving their trolleys all over the place with the potential of stopping/deflecting an incoming ball.
When playing the 16th yellow tee you have other players milling around near the 15 green.
When playing the white tee players walking on to the green in front of those teeing off the 16th tee.
Players having to wait on the 16th tee for those in front to be out of the way which just moves the wait from the 15 tee to the 16th tee and actually does nothing to speed up play.

Yep, having played there I can see all of that.

 

[Slab]

I can see how the composition of the field can impact whether a hole should be call up and how successful it might work in practice. Dare I say for general day to day club players a call up may not work well (or at all)
Also I’d guess players need to know how to use a call up hole properly and most of us don’t experience it often enough to use it correctly (in the same way a buggy should always be a faster pace than walking but only if they’re used properly)

Our shortest par 4 isn’t call up and works fine as is, since its a minority that can reach anyway
When the pros played they could all reach and the call up worked well. Pros know exactly what’s expected whether you’re on the green on the tee

On pro-am day it was not a call up hole and the field was full of pros, club players and corporate ppl who didn’t really play regular golf… So the biggest spread of ability you can imagine. (format is scramble drive to help pace)
So every group has a player that can make the green and 2-3 that can’t & it was the biggest choke point I’ve ever seen. When we got there, there must’ve been 3 x 4-balls on tee and 1 group playing the hole. Making it call up that day would’ve made things even worse since the 3 AMs wouldn’t know what to do to make it efficient

 

[Troymcclure]

In terms of replacing the ball, the player (or their partner) or the person who marked and lifted it may replace the ball (both forms of play).

I thought the player marking the ball had to replace it. Another school day.