Marking Ball on Green

[3offTheTee]

Played in a TEAM STABLEFORD today on a temporary green. I was on the green and asked the guy who was on the green to mark his ball. His reply was that he did not need to as we were on a temporary green. In fact he felt he should leave it there as it would help me if I hit it!!

Surely this is incorrect and it would be a 2 shot penalty if I hit his ball.

 

[Foxholer]

No difference between proper and temporary greens as far as I know.

Yes. Normally 2 shots if you hit it.

However, if he announced that he should leave it there as an aid for you and you subsequently putted with it still there, you would have been deemed to have colluded and would BOTH BE DISQUALIFIED!

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=22&subRuleNum=1

 

[3offTheTee]

Cheers.My thoughts entirely and I did insist he marked his ball

 

[Colin L]

Agreed, the rules apply to whatever putting green is use.

I'm not entirely in agreement after that. A asks B to mark and lift his ball. B refuses to do so. B is refusing to comply with Rule 22-2 and is therefore subject to disqualification for a breach of 3-4 Refusal to comply with a Rule. B's idea that leaving his ball in place might help A is entirely misguided as by hitting B's ball, A would be subject to a 2 stroke penalty. A has not in the first place agreed to have the ball left in place and by putting, A is not colluding in getting assistance. Rather he is having to put up with a plonker who invents rules and is putting him at risk of being penalised.

In the circumstances, if A putted and did hit B's ball it would see to me to be fundamentally wrong to penalise him for a situation that only existed because of his fellow competitor's breach (and a DQ breach at that). If there isn't a Decision to support a no penalty ruling, I'd want to go for one in equity.

 

[Foxholer]

My point was that player A should know that assistance was illegal and should not continue - and would be obliged to point that out. If not, I believe that The Committee would have to conclude that the players had colluded, so disqualification of both - and remember it's a Team Event, so assumption is that they are on the same side. Only other way would be to question player A as to why he continued to putt and make a decision based on the reply. B would certainly be DQ-ed though.

Different in a Singles comp:
I agree that there's not a lot of fairness if a 'fellow competitor' (B) insists on breaking a rule thus introducing the potential for a Penalty for A. Probably only recourse, without undue delay, would be to play 2 balls - and 2nd ball only needed if A actually hit B's ball.

 

[Colin L]

My point is that we are not talking about assistance here. In what way is it assisting Player A to have B's ball left in a position in which if he hits it it costs him 2 penalty strokes? If A were playing from off the green, it would be a different story but here it is a clear disadvantage to A to have B's ball left. That's why A wants it lifted.

To my mind the applicable rule is 22-2 not 22-1 since it is a case of B's ball interfering with A's play.

 

[Tommo21]

Cheers.My thoughts entirely and I did insist he marked his ball

Well done..job done.