Marker moved by opponent's practice swing

[cliveb]

Playing today in a 4BBB match. My partner's and one of the opponent's balls ended up close together on the fairway. It was the opponent's turn to play, and he asked my partner to mark and lift his ball.

The opponent took a practice swing and hit my partner's marker. As this was just a friendly match, we didn't worry and simply replaced the marker. But for future reference, is there any rule infraction here? I couldn't find anything that seemed relevant in rule 22-2.

 

[rulefan]

1 stroke penalty to the opponent. The marker must be replaced.

 

[cliveb]

1 stroke penalty to the opponent. The marker must be replaced.

Thanks.
Do you have a reference to the rule or decision that explains why this penalty applies?

 

[Colin L]

Thanks.
Do you have a reference to the rule or decision that explains why this penalty applies?

It's an equity one. See Decisions 20-1/6.5 and 20-1/7

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-6.5

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-7

 

[rulefan]

Thanks Colin

 

[Colin L]

No problem. Can't have you doing all the work!

 

[rulefan]

I wish my wife would say that sometimes.

 

[cliveb]

It's an equity one. See Decisions 20-1/6.5 and 20-1/7

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-6.5

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-7

OK, thanks. I must say that the penalty seems a little harsh.

I also can't find any definition of "equity". My understanding is that "equity" is supposed to make things fair for everyone, and I'm having a hard time understanding why being penalised for accidentally moving your opponent's marker is fair. Compared to the new LR that allows you to accidentally move your own ball on the putting green without penalty, it seems we are going down the road to different degrees of "fairness".

 

[pogle]

Equity is one of those words that has a specific meaning under the Rules of Golf. The exact situation described isn't contained within the Rules / Decisions so we must look for something that is analogous. The decisions Colin cited deal with slightly different situations where a player or his caddie accidentally moves an opponent's ball or ball marker and so we use those to find the correct answer to this one.

The Decisions book contains a number of situations where the ruling begins "In equity..." and then goes on to describe something which most players would think is pretty unfair if it happened to them.

 

[pogle]

Equity is one of those words that has a specific meaning under the Rules of Golf. It isn't defined in the definitions but rule 1-4 which covers equity helps. The exact situation described isn't contained within the Rules / Decisions so we must look for something that is analogous. The decisions Colin cited deal with slightly different situations where a player or his caddie accidentally moves an opponent's ball or ball marker and so we use those to find the correct answer to this one.

The Decisions book contains a number of situations where the ruling begins "In equity..." and then goes on to describe something which most players would think is pretty unfair if it happened to them.

 

[woody69]

Rule 1-4

What is "Equity?"

Q.What does the term "Equity" mean as used in the Rules of Golf?
A.Equity means to treat like situations alike. Some situations are not covered by the Rules of Golf, thus the decision must be made according to what is fair under the Rules of Golf. Equity is not a substitute for a Rule.(Rule 1-4)

So in the decision provided by Colin it talks about a caddie accidentally moving the marker by their foot. The practice swing moving the marker is taken "in equity" to the foot moving it, so the same penalty applies. It means if another player was penalised for moving the marker with their foot, but other player moved it with their club, he doesn't avoid the penalty because there was no specific mention in the rules.

That's right isn't it?

 

[rulefan]

Yes. And the same would apply if he moved it with his trolley.

The rule cannot tell whether the movement was accidental or intentional, so applies the penalty in all cases.

If you are near a ball just be careful.

 

[cliveb]

Ah right. My apologies for misunderstanding the meaning of "equity". I thought it meant that if the rules don't cover it, do what's fair. But now I see that it means if the rules don't cover it, find a similar situation that IS covered by the rules. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

Once last thing, if I may. Rulefan says that the rules cannot tell whether a movement is accidental or intentional. But I thought that precise distinction is made in the new local rule about moving your ball on the green? Surely it isn't giving a player permission to deliberately move his ball without penalty?

 

[Colin L]

The two Decisions are themselves based on equity. There is no rule covering moving your opponent's marker but there is one[18-3] which penalises you a stroke for touching or moving your opponent's ball (other than in a search). The situations of moving the ball and moving the marker which is, as it were, standing in for the ball are sufficiently like each other to apply the same penalty for moving the marker as for moving the ball.

 

[cliveb]

The two Decisions are themselves based on equity. There is no rule covering moving your opponent's marker but there is one[18-3] which penalises you a stroke for touching or moving your opponent's ball (other than in a search). The situations of moving the ball and moving the marker which is, as it were, standing in for the ball are sufficiently like each other to apply the same penalty for moving the marker as for moving the ball.

First let me say that of course I respect that you know a great deal about the rules and what you say is no doubt correct.

But it simply doesn't make logical sense to me. If moving a marker or a ball amounts to the same thing, then why would one ever lift a ball and mark it? When I'm putting, if my ball hits a FC's ball I am rightly penalised, but if my ball hits the FC's marker, I am not. The situations are clearly different and recognised as such in the rules. In short, I suppose I'm suggesting that a ball and a marker should not be regarded as the same in equity.

I'm eager to learn the rules, and thank those of you here who are willing to give their time to explain them. But I also like to understand the rationale behind them, and I'm afraid this is one that has me baffled.

 

[rulefan]

As you say, the situations are clearly different.
The situation we are discussing here is of course match play (you mentioned FCs)
A ball hitting a ball will almost certainly have more effect than hitting a marker. The extreme being an 'accidental/intentional' in-off or playing croquet the other ball.
Hitting a marker is, in the scheme of things, pretty small beer, as are markers generally. But moving a marker, independently of anything to with a ball, is a different kettle of fish. So equity decisions are needed.

 

[user2010]

Sorry if I`ve missed something here,
Why would hitting an opponents marker with a practice swing incur a 1 stroke penalty? He hasn`t gained ANY advantage has he?

 

[rulefan]

Sorry if I`ve missed something here,
Why would hitting an opponents marker with a practice swing incur a 1 stroke penalty? He hasn`t gained ANY advantage has he?

It doesn't matter how he moved it. The marker is no longer accurately marking the position of the ball.
He had the opportunity to ask for the marker to be moved.

 

[Colin L]

Sorry if I`ve missed something here,
Why would hitting an opponents marker with a practice swing incur a 1 stroke penalty? He hasn`t gained ANY advantage has he?

If you don't like my argument that equates moving the marker with moving your opponent's ball which would cost you a penalty stroke, go with rulefan's reference. The player is obliged to mark his ball before lifting and if he himself accidentally moved his marker it would cost him a stroke. [Decision 20-1/5.5 http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-20,d20-1-5.5]. If his opponent accidentally does the same, the penalty is shifted to him.

 

[woody69]

Sorry if I`ve missed something here,
Why would hitting an opponents marker with a practice swing incur a 1 stroke penalty? He hasn`t gained ANY advantage has he?

I think this is quite a misunderstood part of the rules of golf. Players aren't penalised because they have or haven't gained an advantage.