lost ball - provisional

[williamalex1]

The 'going back in line' can often be very useful - as others have described - and you can go back as far as you like - only limited by the course boundary

And don't worry about you getting this wrong - I have no doubts that you may well NOT have misunderstood what you were told. There are many, many examples on here where a poster has described how they were told of a ruling and what they could do by someone 'in the know'/'low handicapper'/'rules expert'/'handicap convener' etc - when what they were told is just total guff

Hugh, i don't think you can go back as far as you like , only back to where the last stroke was played.
I remember Tiger getting pulled up for going back too far.:thup:

 

[duncan mackie]

Hugh, i don't think you can go back as far as you like , only back to where the last stroke was played.
I remember Tiger getting pulled up for going back too far.:thup:

No, he's correct.

The Tiger issue you are thinking of was where he got confused about whether he was going back in line or playing from the last place he played from.
The committee thought he was playing from the last place, and ruled that the variation from its actual spot was within an acceptable tolerance and there was no advantage etc without consulting the player as to his intention.... Tiger then stated in a press conference that he went back a little to gain an advantage. The rest is now history but lives on in people's minds for all the wrong reasons.

 

[williamalex1]

No, he's correct.

The Tiger issue you are thinking of was where he got confused about whether he was going back in line or playing from the last place he played from.
The committee thought he was playing from the last place, and ruled that the variation from its actual spot was within an acceptable tolerance and there was no advantage etc without consulting the player as to his intention.... Tiger then stated in a press conference that he went back a little to gain an advantage. The rest is now history but lives on in people's minds for all the wrong reasons.

Ah,so you can declare a ball unplayable and go back as far as you like , even further back than point where your last stroke was played from , without limit ?.

 

[Capella]

Ah,so you can declare a ball unplayable and go back as far as you like , even further back than point where your last stroke was played from , without limit ?.

Well, you will hit an out of bounds line sooner or later, but apart from that, yes. But you are not going back on the line you played on (unless you are Tiger Woods and hit it dead straight), you are going back on the line between the hole and the place your unplayable ball ended up. In most cases that means you are making your way diagonally over the course and will miss the place you hit your original ball from by a country mile.

 

[drdel]

Interesting thread.

So I've hit my ball into the deep stuff and have also played a provisional somewhere down the fairway.

Do I now have to spend all five minutes looking for my original ball or can I have a more brief search and then play on with the provisional under a one stroke penalty? Do I even have to look for the original at all?

You could just declare it unplayable and thus 'stroke and distance ' don't say its a provisional then there's no need for anyone to look. The risk is that the original is in a better position than you thought.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

regardless of whether you can see your ball or not, if you put another ball in play and don't declare it as a provisional then the new ball becomes your in play ball and you continue with that under penalty, e.g. I hit a ball over green, didnt declare provisional ball and played another straight into hole, I walked off with a par even tho I subsequently found my 1st ball as I hadn't declared provisional on tee.

similarly a playing partner smashed his drive up to just right of the green, but thinned his second shot into bunker, instead of playing bunker shot he played a ball as close to were original ball was, took a 1 shot penalty and chipped his 4th shot stiff. even tho bunker shot was playable he chose the safer option in his opinion, which was within rules of game

I love the look on a playing companion's face when - with my ball ending up sitting in the middle of the correct fairway and on a perfect lie - I say that I'm thinking of taking stroke and distance - and go back to where I hit the previous shot. And of course, as in your example - I might do this as the shot I have left myself might be horrid - and it would actually be better to go back and try and put my ball in a better place.

 

[Orikoru]

regardless of whether you can see your ball or not, if you put another ball in play and don't declare it as a provisional then the new ball becomes your in play ball and you continue with that under penalty, e.g. I hit a ball over green, didnt declare provisional ball and played another straight into hole, I walked off with a par even tho I subsequently found my 1st ball as I hadn't declared provisional on tee.

similarly a playing partner smashed his drive up to just right of the green, but thinned his second shot into bunker, instead of playing bunker shot he played a ball as close to were original ball was, took a 1 shot penalty and chipped his 4th shot stiff. even tho bunker shot was playable he chose the safer option in his opinion, which was within rules of game

I had no idea you could do that to be honest. So how many penalty shots is that? He puts his 2nd shot in the bunker, but replaces it with a new ball for his 3rd, then the next shot is his 4th?

That seems like one of those things where if you're playing with people who don't know all the rules you'd have a hard time explaining it to them without showing them the rule in writing! Good to know though, if I ever land in an absolute horrowshow of a bunker. I'm honestly learning so much from this thread!

 

[backwoodsman]

I had no idea you could do that to be honest. So how many penalty shots is that? He puts his 2nd shot in the bunker, but replaces it with a new ball for his 3rd, then the next shot is his 4th?

That seems like one of those things where if you're playing with people who don't know all the rules you'd have a hard time explaining it to them without showing them the rule in writing! Good to know though, if I ever land in an absolute horrowshow of a bunker. I'm honestly learning so much from this thread!

You counted correctly. Smack second into bunker =2, go back under stroke & distance = 3 play again onto green = 4.

The classic, oft quoted on here, but I'll repeat it, isthe "putting off the green into bunker" scenario. Your third shot (1st putt) goes hare-ing off the front of the green into horrible bunker. Rather than risk several hacks, you can declare unplayable, put the ball back on the green uner the S&D option. Your now give a more gentle putt, nicely into the hole for a 5. (Not that I've ever done it though ...)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You counted correctly. Smack second into bunker =2, go back under stroke & distance = 3 play again onto green = 4.

The classic, oft quoted on here, but I'll repeat it, isthe "putting off the green into bunker" scenario. Your third shot (1st putt) goes hare-ing off the front of the green into horrible bunker. Rather than risk several hacks, you can declare unplayable, put the ball back on the green uner the S&D option. Your now give a more gentle putt, nicely into the hole for a 5. (Not that I've ever done it though ...)

Other example very pertinent for my track. Steeply sloping raised green (15ft above fairway) running fast downhill from back to front. Scenario, flag v close to front of green and approach shot hit to or off the back of the green. Putt or chip scoots past the hole and off the front of the green - down a slope and ends up 30yds from green - with pitch up 15ft to green level. Very difficult to pitch ball close to the hole; short and it will likely come back to my feet; long and I have another deadly difficult downhill putt. Best option may well be to take S&D and replay putt or chip from the position at the back of the green - this time I know what sent it off the front of the green the first time,

 

[Orikoru]

Other example very pertinent for my track. Steeply sloping raised green (15ft above fairway) running fast downhill from back to front. Scenario, flag v close to front of green and approach shot hit to or off the back of the green. Putt or chip scoots past the hole and off the front of the green - down a slope and ends up 30yds from green - with pitch up 15ft to green level. Very difficult to pitch ball close to the hole; short and it will likely come back to my feet; long and I have another deadly difficult downhill putt. Best option may well be to take S&D and replay putt or chip from the position at the back of the green - this time I know what sent it off the front of the green the first time,

Yeah, that's a clever use of the rules. I'm definitely going to remember this - but I'd have to be ready to show the other players the ruling on my phone as I reckon they'd be dubious otherwise.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree with Junior somewhat though. The idea that you can hit a tee shot (which goes into a bush), then hit a provisional, then walk down the fairway and find your first ball, see it's unplayable and then have to walk 250 yards all the way back to the tee sounds ludicrous to me. The whole point of a provisional is a time-saving exercise anyway isn't it? So why does it count when the ball is lost, but not when it's found and unplayable? Makes no sense to me. Especially when the course is busy.

It might sound ludicrous - but the rules are framed to prevent abuse and to prevent a player gaining a benefit over his opponents or the field from his mistake.

Besides the scenario I mention is probably quite rare - and as it happens I only had 50yds to walk back.

Also - and very importantly - pace of play on the course need not be adversely affected.

Were you to have to walk back to the tee, you would immediately wave through the group following you if you had not done so already. You and your playing companions would stand aside to let the following group play. You then get back to the tee and the group you have waved through - now themselves off down the hole - stand to the side to let you play. And as you walk the 250yds back to where your ball is - now of course in the middle of the fairway - they play on. You get to your companions, and chances are the group waved through will be out of range or on the green and so your wait is only whilst they putt out and finish the hole.

 

[Orikoru]

It might sound ludicrous - but the rules are framed to prevent abuse and to prevent a player gaining a benefit over his opponents or the field from his mistake.

Besides the scenario I mention is probably quite rare - and as it happens I only had 50yds to walk back.

Also - and very importantly - pace of play on the course need not be adversely affected.

Were you to have to walk back to the tee, you would immediately wave through the group following you if you had not done so already. You and your playing companions would stand aside to let the following group play. You then get back to the tee and the group you have waved through - now themselves off down the hole - stand to the side to let you play. And as you walk the 250yds back to where your ball is - now of course in the middle of the fairway - they play on. You get to your companions, and chances are the group waved through will be out of range or on the green and so your wait is only whilst they putt out and finish the hole.

Unless one of them has found their ball unplayable and is heading back to the tee to retake their tee shot, in a kind of infinite loop for all of time...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Unless one of them has found their ball unplayable and is heading back to the tee to retake their tee shot, in a kind of infinite loop for all of time...

In which case the two groups revert to the original order