lost ball - provisional

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Ian S

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Could somebody please help with this one. Whilst playing over the weekend, I hit a tee shot to the middle of fairway. My 2nd shot I hooked into the trees. What would be my options here and what penalty's given. I played a provisional ball and then consequently could not find my original ball. So I know I carry on with the provisional so what would my next shot with this be? Would this now be my 4th? The other question is if I did not play a provisional could I take a drop under penalty and if so would this then be a 2 shot penalty? In our group we all had different views. Thank you.
 
Not being funny here but you really need to get hold of a guide to the rules & study the basic ones before you play in any competitions. To answer your question, you need to say your provisional is a provisional before you hit it. If not, it's the ball in play. As far as penalty is concerned it's what is called "stroke & distance". This means you count all the shots & add the penalty, which is one stroke. So, after you have hit your provisional, you've had 3 shots plus one penalty. The next shot is your fifth.

Secondly, you cannot drop under penalty if you can't find the ball & haven't played a provisional. You must go back to where you hit the shot & play another from as near this as you can.
 
If you play a provisional and then can't find your first ball, then your provisional does become ball in play and is treated as if you had not found your ball and gone back and hit a new ball from the original place with a one shot penalty. So yes, your shot with the provisional is your fourth shot in your example. If you had not played a provisional, your only option would have been to walk back to the original position and drop the ball there (also your fourth shot, so also a one shot penalty). Basically, the only thing the provisional ball does is speed up play, because it saves you from walking back after the search time. If you (or one of your plaing partners/co competitors) do find your ball, you must play it. Even if it is unplayable, you don't have the option to play on with the provisional ball instead, but must proceed under the normal rules for an unplayable ball. If you first ball is found, the provisional is void. That happened in this years Masters on the 12th at some point. The poor guy (forgotten who it was) hit his first ball into the bushes, hit a decent provisional, found his ball in the bushes but could not play it or take a sensible drop in two club length distance, so he had to walk back to the tee and take shot form there for the third time (which was then his third shot, because the provis did not coount).
 
I did announce the provisional, but one guy said that a drop was ok.. This is what I thought about the drop. OOB and water, drops under penalty is then ok - correct? Thank you for your reply which clears this up. Not been playing long and still learning.
 
Everyone is new at some point... and it is surprising how many "less new" players get some rules wrong... the R&A used to do a book explaining the main ones in pictorial form ..wonder if its still available or online?

But, as a minimum, knowing what to go if you lose your ball, think you may have lost your ball, Out of Bounds, Red staked hazard and yellow staked hazards and "Ground under repair" covers most games... others will have their views about priorities. .

Sometimes rules are a little flexed when "playing with mates" especially if all new players... and in one respect, so what? its about having fun and learning the game... but once you get into Club Competitions, you need to step it up a bit... and to be honest, if you ask when not sure, most folk are helpful...
 
Thank you for all your replies, I understand this rule now. I have downloaded R&A rulebook to phone so will always have at hand.

:cheers:
Cheers!!
 
dear OP (@IanS) here's one to bear in mind that happened to me on Saturday in our monthly medal.

I topped a tee shot 50yds into an area of thick gorse. Not good. So I declared and played a provisional - and as is almost always the case it seems - I hit an absolute peach into Position A.

I went to see if my ball had got through the gorse - but no - it hadn't but on walking to my bag I found it - unplayable at the edge of the gorse. My choices.

1) Penalty drop within 2 club lengths. But nowhere to drop that wouldn't put me back in a similar position as that in which I found my ball. Option Rejected.
2) Drop on a line made by extending backwards the line between original ball position and the flag (way in the distance). Again - nowhere to drop that wouldn't put me back in a similar position as that in which I found my ball. Option Rejected.
3) Take Stroke and Distance and go back to the tee. This was I chose to do. And hit a 'not bad' tee shot - but not near as good as my provisional - ho hum.

But newbie take note. Because I found my original ball I could not ignore it or stick it in my pocket and choose to play my provisional - my provisional was now irrelevant. I had to play my original ball.

Further, if on walking to the gorse bush I had decided it was most probably going to be 'lost', I could not simply 'declare it lost' to enable me to play my 'cracking' provisional. I could say these words and if my ball was not found then I can play the provisional. But if subsequent to making my 'lost' declaration I or a.n.other had (within 5mins of being in the approx vicinity of the ball whether you look for it or not) stumbled on my ball then - as above - the provisional was irrelevant - and my original was now the ball in play. Declaring your ball lost is irrelevant if you then find it (within 5mins) A ball is only 'lost' (or can be ignored) by the very act of the player putting another ball in play and not declaring that new ball a provisional.

I have to admit to cursing and wondering how many players would have not mentioned to their companions that they had found their original ball, and gone ahead to play their provisional...very few I hope and suspect. But I did wonder.
 
Last edited:
Maninblack4612 said:
Not being funny here but you really need to get hold of a guide to the rules & study the basic ones before you play in any competitions. To answer your question, you need to say your provisional is a provisional before you hit it. If not, it's the ball in play. As far as penalty is concerned it's what is called "stroke & distance". This means you count all the shots & add the penalty, which is one stroke. So, after you have hit your provisional, you've had 3 shots plus one penalty. The next shot is your fifth.

Secondly, you cannot drop under penalty if you can't find the ball & haven't played a provisional. You must go back to where you hit the shot & play another from as near this as you can.
Click to expand...

nice helpful post.

when did he say he was playing in a competition?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
2) Drop on a line made by extending backwards the line between original ball position and the flag (way in the distance). Again - nowhere to drop that wouldn't put me back in a similar position as that in which I found my ball. Option Rejected.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong as I'm very much not a rules expert, but can you not drop it anywhere in line between where the ball ended up and the tee box you played it from (not nearer the hole obviously)? I've never heard of it being a line between the ball and the flag.
 
Orikoru said:
Forgive me if I'm wrong as I'm very much not a rules expert, but can you not drop it anywhere in line between where the ball ended up and the tee box you played it from (not nearer the hole obviously)? I've never heard of it being a line between the ball and the flag.
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no. you cant. the only time something like that happens is if you decide to take an unplayable and one of your options is you can drop anywhere inline with your position and the pin. also when you hit into a yellow stake

clearly no nearer the hole
 
hovis said:
no. you cant. the only time something like that happens is if you decide to take an unplayable and one of your options is you can drop anywhere inline with your position and the pin. also when you hit into a yellow stake

clearly no nearer the hole
Click to expand...
Wow, ok, thanks. I could have sworn the former captain of our club said something like what I said - maybe I misunderstood. Golf rules are a bloody minefield.

So you're saying you can draw an imaginary line between your ball and the flag and move backwards on that to drop it? How would that ever help?? Surely 99% of the time that would just send you further into the rough??
 
Orikoru said:
Wow, ok, thanks. I could have sworn the former captain of our club said something like what I said - maybe I misunderstood. Golf rules are a bloody minefield.

So you're saying you can draw an imaginary line between your ball and the flag and move backwards on that to drop it? How would that ever help?? Surely 99% of the time that would just send you further into the rough??
Click to expand...

imagine your behind a bush or against a tree going back 60 yards would possibly give you a better look at the green. or you can play the shot again or take a two club drop
 
Orikoru said:
How would that ever help?? Surely 99% of the time that would just send you further into the rough??
Click to expand...

Nobody said it would be easy :D

No, seriously, it can help, for example if your ball is directly behind a bush or tree, it allows you to go far enough back to then play over the offending piece of botany. Or to go back onto an adjacent fairway for example. The Rule is 28 b:
Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped;
Click to expand...
 
Orikoru said:
Ok, fair enough. Always learning. :)
Click to expand...

The 'going back in line' can often be very useful - as others have described - and you can go back as far as you like - only limited by the course boundary :)

And don't worry about you getting this wrong - I have no doubts that you may well NOT have misunderstood what you were told. There are many, many examples on here where a poster has described how they were told of a ruling and what they could do by someone 'in the know'/'low handicapper'/'rules expert'/'handicap convener' etc - when what they were told is just total guff :)
 
also, it does pay to study the rules. i pulled a competitor for removing an oob stake. he was positive you could. even the pro in the shop after the round said it was ok. that was until i showed them the rule.
 
hovis said:
also, it does pay to study the rules. i pulled a competitor for removing an oob stake. he was positive you could. even the pro in the shop after the round said it was ok. that was until i showed them the rule.
Click to expand...
Is there easy place online with all the rules published then? Would be nice to know where I could check on stuff, especially if I can save a link to it in my phone or something in case I'm really unsure on the course and nobody I'm playing with knows a ruling.
 
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