lost ball - provisional

...and if you don't really know why under the rules you can do what you are about to do - then don't do it. Keep the wee book in your bag or app on your phone - and just check before doing it.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and if you don't really know why under the rules you can do what you are about to do - then don't do it. Keep the wee book in your bag or app on your phone - and just check before doing it.
Click to expand...
Good point, I've just spotted there is an R&A App on Play Store for my phone, so I'll be downloading that! That should help enormously when out on the course.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Further, if on walking to the gorse bush I had decided it was most probably going to be 'lost', I could not simply 'declare it lost' to enable me to play my 'cracking' provisional. I could say these words and if my ball was not found then I can play the provisional. But if subsequent to making my 'lost' declaration I or a.n.other had (within 5mins of being in the approx vicinity of the ball whether you look for it or not) stumbled on my ball then - as above - the provisional was irrelevant - and my original was now the ball in play. Declaring your ball lost is irrelevant if you then find it (within 5mins) A ball is only 'lost' (or can be ignored) by the very act of the player putting another ball in play and not declaring that new ball a provisional.
Click to expand...

You can't declare a ball lost.
 
Just another query. I think I was told the wrong info once. Playing a hole with a 90 degree dogleg. between tee and dogleg ball becomes unplayable for any reason. Is the drop inline with hole still relevant considering hole position is impossible to see through thick wooodland plus if guessed position drop back across fairway giving a much better view around dogleg?
I was told that drop back was then inline with direction of play, having tried reading the rules it looks like that was wrong info, unless there is a decision I've not found.
 
chellie said:
You can't declare a ball lost.
Click to expand...

Yes I know, that's why I said '...a ball is only 'lost' by the very act of a player putting another ball in play and not declaring that the new ball a provisional'

And I put the word 'lost' in quotes because a ball cannot be lost under the rules - it is just not 'the ball in play'

what Duncan said...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yes I know, that's why I said '...a ball is only 'lost' by the very act of a player putting another ball in play and not declaring that the new ball a provisional'

And I put the word 'lost' in quotes because a ball cannot be lost under the rules - it is just not 'the ball in play'

what Duncan said...
Click to expand...

You were doing well until the end....

"A ball is deemed "lost" if:

a.
It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

b.
The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or

c.
The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or

d.
The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or

e.
The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

Time spent in playing a wrong ball is not counted in the five-minute period allowed for search."

In this case "lost" is in parenthesis because it's a defined term in the rules (and this is the definition)
 
duncan mackie said:
You were doing well until the end....

"A ball is deemed "lost" if:

a.
It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

b.
The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or

c.
The player has put another ball into play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or

d.
The player has put another ball into play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or

e.
The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.

Time spent in playing a wrong ball is not counted in the five-minute period allowed for search."

In this case "lost" is in parenthesis because it's a defined term in the rules (and this is the definition)
Click to expand...

Well there you go. I knew all the conditions for a 'lost' ball, but to be honest I'm not 100% sure that I appreciated that "lost" was a defined term. I just thought it could be deemed by the player to be lost if any of the conditions you list were satisfied - and could not otherwise be 'deemed' by the player to be lost. Yes I know...:)
 
Orikoru said:
Wow, ok, thanks. I could have sworn the former captain of our club said something like what I said - maybe I misunderstood. Golf rules are a bloody minefield.

So you're saying you can draw an imaginary line between your ball and the flag and move backwards on that to drop it? How would that ever help?? Surely 99% of the time that would just send you further into the rough??
Click to expand...

I would not be at all surprised if the former captain did say something of that ilk. He won't have been the first to do so and won't be the last. The number of people who wrongly think it is the line between the ball and where it came from, is remarkable. :):)
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well there you go. I knew all the conditions for a 'lost' ball, but to be honest I'm not 100% sure that I appreciated that "lost" was a defined term. I just thought it could be deemed by the player to be lost if any of the conditions you list were satisfied - and could not otherwise be 'deemed' by the player to be lost. Yes I know...:)
Click to expand...

Your other clue is in the title of Rule 27 :)
 
Ross61 said:
Just another query. I think I was told the wrong info once. Playing a hole with a 90 degree dogleg. between tee and dogleg ball becomes unplayable for any reason. Is the drop inline with hole still relevant considering hole position is impossible to see through thick wooodland plus if guessed position drop back across fairway giving a much better view around dogleg?
I was told that drop back was then inline with direction of play, having tried reading the rules it looks like that was wrong info, unless there is a decision I've not found.
Click to expand...

The "on a line" option for a drop for an unplayable ball is always on the line from flag, through ball and hence backwards from there. If you can't see the flag, (through the woods, say) then, yes, you'll have difficulty establishing where the line is and you'll have to give it your best estimate. But it's still the line. And yes, on holes with a very sharp dog-leg, this line may well get you back out onto the fairway you were supposed to be playing
 
Rule 28, page 102, a player can declare his ball unplayable anywhere on the course, except when in a water hazard. Usual 3 options apply!
 
drdel said:
Rule 28, page 102, a player can declare his ball unplayable anywhere on the course, except when in a water hazard. Usual 3 options apply!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how that helps? Unplayable and lost are different things and in order to declare a ball unplayable, you have to be able to see it, and it has to be on the course.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
I'm not sure how that helps? Unplayable and lost are different things and in order to declare a ball unplayable, you have to be able to see it, and it has to be on the course.
Click to expand...

Not so.

But if you don't find it and identify it, then you can only take the stroke & distance option and not 2CL or "on a line"
 
backwoodsman said:
Not so.

But if you don't find it and identify it, then you can only take the stroke & distance option and not 2CL or "on a line"
Click to expand...

How can you declare a ball unplayable if you can't see it? If you can't see it then surely it will just become lost when one of the conditions is met?
 
HawkeyeMS said:
How can you declare a ball unplayable if you can't see it? If you can't see it then surely it will just become lost when one of the conditions is met?
Click to expand...

See decision 28/1.

I can't copy & paste using this tablet, but it's about a shot going into a canyon between tee & green and asks can a ball be declared unplayable even though not found. Answer, yes but only using stroke & distance as that does not make reference to the position of ball (which other options do)
 
backwoodsman said:
See decision 28/1.

I can't copy & paste using this tablet, but it's about a shot going into a canyon between tee & green and asks can a ball be declared unplayable even though not found. Answer, yes but only using stroke & distance as that does not make reference to the position of ball (which other options do)
Click to expand...

Fair enough, it just seems a bit odd as all you are actually doing is putting another ball in play because you can't find your original
 
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