Lost ball - heading back to tee ground

[sajkox]

I have seen it happened twice recently and it caused a lot of confusion at our place.

Drive lands in the rough and we look for it for about 3-4 minutes until the player says "ok I will go and tee again"
10s later the ball is found.

We spoke with our pro and he said that by going back to the tee he declares his ball lost and so even if the ball was found, 5 minute rule no longer applies (that's how I understood it).

So we had a game this Sunday same situation happens I tell them to play another one just in case and they are like "Yeah right, its still under 5 minutes he can play it. You are new, you need to learn rules"

Its amazing how many times I've heard different rules depending on who I play with.

I've read rules book 3 times already - too much for my memory. The only one I remember is 28 b very useful on our 11th.

So the question: can you still play your ball if found within 5 minutes even if you turned back already to tee up again ?

 

[sajkox]

I have just found

I've nearly been the victim of the 'Declaring the Ball Lost' myth. My FCs stopped looking when I went back to play another ball and had to be 'reminded' to continue. They found it within the 5 minutes.

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?56455-Urban-Myth-Golf-Rules

 

[DCB]

So the question: can you still play your ball if found within 5 minutes even if you turned back already to tee up again ?

Yes decision 27/16 covers this situation.

Q - A player searched for his ball for two minutes, declared it lost and started back to play another ball at the spot from which the original ball was played. Before he put another ball into play, his original ball was found within the five-minute period allowed for search. What is the ruling?

A - A player cannot render a ball lost by a declaration – see Definition of “Lost Ball”. The original ball remained in play – see Definition of “Ball in Play”.

 

[chrisd]

What he can't do is to say " you keep looking and I'll go back and play a provisional"

If he didn't play one whilst on the tee he's lost the chance.

 

[Region3]

Pretty much what the others have said, but the ball is only 'lost' when either the 5 minutes search time is up or the player has put another ball into play.

 

[Foxholer]

I have seen it happened twice recently and it caused a lot of confusion at our place.

Drive lands in the rough and we look for it for about 3-4 minutes until the player says "ok I will go and tee again"
10s later the ball is found.

We spoke with our pro and he said that by going back to the tee he declares his ball lost and so even if the ball was found, 5 minute rule no longer applies (that's how I understood it).

So we had a game this Sunday same situation happens I tell them to play another one just in case and they are like "Yeah right, its still under 5 minutes he can play it. You are new, you need to learn rules"

Its amazing how many times I've heard different rules depending on who I play with.

I've read rules book 3 times already - too much for my memory. The only one I remember is 28 b very useful on our 11th.

So the question: can you still play your ball if found within 5 minutes even if you turned back already to tee up again ?

Your Pro was wrong! Not altogether unusual. You should, diplomatically, tell him so - pointing out the appropriate Rule. If he continues to dispute it, ask him to point out the Rule that applies.

No such thing - these days - as declaring a ball lost. There was for 4 years in the 60s though!

 

[bladeplayer]

Must admit i have to hold my hands up here on this one , i thought once you the player abandoned the search that was it ,

another one corrected for me ..

 

[pbrown7582]

Must admit i have to hold my hands up here on this one , i thought once you the player abandoned the search that was it ,

another one corrected for me ..

Every days a school day I thought that was it after starting walk back.

 

[CMAC]

its useful to know in matchplay when an opponent 'declares his 1st ball lost' because his provisional is 2 feet from the pin! you can still look for his 1st ball and if found within 5 minutes then thats the ball in play whether he likes it or not. Only caveat to that is if the player didnt declare a provisional on the tee then the 2nd ball automatically is the ball in play............is my understanding

 

[duncan mackie]

its useful to know in matchplay when an opponent 'declares his 1st ball lost' because his provisional is 2 feet from the pin! you can still look for his 1st ball and if found within 5 minutes then thats the ball in play whether he likes it or not. Only caveat to that is if the player didnt declare a provisional on the tee then the 2nd ball automatically is the ball in play............is my understanding

not quite - he can just go up and hole out before you find it....... nice try

 

[sajkox]

Your Pro was wrong! Not altogether unusual. You should, diplomatically, tell him so - pointing out the appropriate Rule. If he continues to dispute it, ask him to point out the Rule that applies.

No such thing - these days - as declaring a ball lost. There was for 4 years in the 60s though!

To be fair to the pro - I wasn't there when things were discussed with him - also guy played 2nd ball after 1st was found because other passing by guy told him he will be dq'ed. Then since he put 2nd ball in play that's probably why he had to keep "second ball" score on the card.

I was talking to affected guy after his chat to the pro and maybe I misunderstood him

 

[CMAC]

not quite - he can just go up and hole out before you find it....... nice try

yes good point. I would always try and find my 1st ball as I could get a birdie with it whereas the prov is a bogie at best in this scenario

 

[bladeplayer]

not quite - he can just go up and hole out before you find it....... nice try

only if your closer than him surely ? if your not he cant play out of turn, or if he does you can make him replay it

 

[rulefan]

only if your closer than him surely ? if your not he cant play out of turn, or if he does you can make him replay it

He does not replay the provisional. As the stroke has been cancelled (ie it did not happen), the original ball is still the ball in play.

 

[CMAC]

He does not replay the provisional. As the stroke has been cancelled (ie it did not happen), the original ball is still the ball in play.

I think Bladeplayer means he can't go up and tap in his provisional ball if you are further away, which negates Duncans point he could do this- he can in strokeplay but not in matchplay

well spotted Blade :thup:

 

[rulefan]

I think Bladeplayer means he can't go up and tap in his provisional ball if you are further away, which negates Duncans point he could do this- he can in strokeplay but not in matchplay

well spotted Blade :thup:

Yes. I was just clarifying which ball he meant when he wrote "make him replay it"

 

[doublebogey7]

I think Bladeplayer means he can't go up and tap in his provisional ball if you are further away, which negates Duncans point he could do this- he can in strokeplay but not in matchplay

well spotted Blade :thup:

Once the provisional ball has been played it becomes the ball in play, it is true that the opponent may ask them to replay it (if having played out of turn) but it is still the ball in play.

FAQ number 3 would appear to confirm the above. http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=27&subRuleNum=2

 

[MashieNiblick]

Once the provisional ball has been played it becomes the ball in play, it is true that the opponent may ask them to replay it (if having played out of turn) but it is still the ball in play.

FAQ number 3 would appear to confirm the above. http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=27&subRuleNum=2

Beat me to it. I think it is actually FAQ 2 also Decision 27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball.

 

[Foxholer]

To be fair to the pro - I wasn't there when things were discussed with him - also guy played 2nd ball after 1st was found because other passing by guy told him he will be dq'ed. Then since he put 2nd ball in play that's probably why he had to keep "second ball" score on the card.

I was talking to affected guy after his chat to the pro and maybe I misunderstood him

Ah. The old 'not quite full story' trick! Indeed, by putting the 2nd ball into play, that becomes the ball in play.

What was the 2nd guy on about though! Doesn't seem right to me! Attempting to hurry him up?

 

[sajkox]

What was the 2nd guy on about though! Doesn't seem right to me! Attempting to hurry him up?

He was from the group behind that we let through as we were looking for a ball.
He (passing by guy) noticed our hero was coming back to tee ground and then I found the ball. He said he needs to go back and tee regardless as he effectively declared ball lost just by heading back.
Hero played both balls to resolve with pro later - I must have misunderstood as to why his seconds score was valid.