Loose impediment on the fringe

[Sweep]

One of my PPs had a putt from the fringe at the weekend and just after he struck the putt his ball hit a small stone from the bunker which deflected his ball off target. When asked why he hadn't moved it before he putted the ball. The player replied he wasn't allowed to as the stone was off the green and on his line. A quick check on the rules app seems to confirm he is correct. However I am reminded of Rory's incident of 2012 in the Abu Dhabi HSBC which was similar when he brushed away sand which was not on the putting surface. Luke Donald pulled him up on the rule and Rory took a 2 shot penalty. We know sand is only a loose impediment on the green so fair enough. It was Rory's quote afterwards that got me thinking:
“You can move a loose impediment like a divot out of your line — you can’t move sand,” McIlroy said. “It’s a bit of a weird rule.”
So who is right or is there something I have missed? Also, is the rule different if you are off the green and the impediment is on the green? Thanks.

 

[louise_a]

You can move loose impediments unless the ball and loose impediment are in the same hazard. If you cause the ball to move while doing so, it is a one shot penalty. Sand is only classed as a loose impediment when it is on the green, so the stone could have been moved from the fringe but sand can't.

 

[duncan mackie]

Louise is correct, but to clarify further as this seems to crop up a lot and is rather simple - it doesn't matter whether your ball is on, or off the green; what matters is where the 'thing' is. The only things that are relevant are sand and loose dirt (worm casts are not loose dirt) which are classified as loose impediment when they are on the green. Through the green they are not - not the silly rule Rory suggests because otherwise you can mess around creating a teed ball when it lies on loose dirt or sand (outside a hazard) by brushing it away. On the other hand it would be a little unfair to be have a clod of sand from another players bunker shot on you line of putt.
If there was a working definition of a fringe it would be possible to include sand on that as an LI, but there isn't and generally the rule makes are of the view that you have other options available to you to deal with it (in the same way as a pitch mark on the fringe).

 

[guest100718]

Mcilroy has a lot to answer for... Try brushing some sand away on the green some smartarse will chirp up and tell you its a penalty.

 

[rulefan]

The reason sand and loose soil are not loose impediments elsewhere is that they are the natural ground of golf courses. Ever seen a links course that isn't sand based?

 

[pogle]

You can move loose impediments unless the ball and loose impediment are in the same hazard. If you cause the ball to move while doing so, it is a one shot penalty. Sand is only classed as a loose impediment when it is on the green, so the stone could have been moved from the fringe but sand can't.

Just to add to Louise's comment - if you move a ball (or a ball-marker) that lies on the putting green when moving a loose impediment then there is no penalty and the ball (or ball-marker) must be replaced.

 

[Sweep]

Thanks for your responses. It is much appreciated. This is as I thought but I wanted to check. Sometimes when someone says something with such certainty, you begin to doubt yourself.
I assume the appropriate rule is 23-1 as 16-1 (i) relates to the line of putt which is only applicable on the putting green?

 

[rulefan]

I assume the appropriate rule is 23-1 as 16-1 (i) relates to the line of putt which is only applicable on the putting green?

Together with the definition of Loose Impediment.