London Bridge incident

[Deleted member 16999]

Well that's not going to happen

Why? All parties are promising more police.

 

[SocketRocket]

People who kill people are the problem.
People who sell arms to people are the problem.
People who incite hatred are the problem.
People who support human rights are not the problem.
People who don't support racism are not the problem.

I know it's nice and easy to say "let's kick everyone out, and that'll deal with it", but unfortunately it's a bit late for that. We need to radically re-think why this is happening, and how it can be resolved. Do you think we'd have peace in NI right now if we'd just kicked out everyone with an irish accent in the last few decades?
People

People who kill people are the problem. (People that kill evil terrorists are not the problem)
People who sell arms to people are the problem. (What! Transit vans and kitchen knifes)
People who incite hatred are the problem. (Especially those that hate us for our western freedoms while benefiting from them)
People who support human rights are not the problem. (People who use human rights to protect evil are the problem)
People who don't support racism are not the problem. (People who cannot face up to the evil being perpetrated like the grooming and rape of children, the atrocity of FGM, the inability to identify the terrorist in communities, the acceptance of people coming to the UK who have no intention of adopting British values and culture, all because we are frightened of being branded Racist is the problem)

 

[Fish]

Well that's not going to happen

There were more police in 2005 and it didn't prevent 7/7 did it? You're not going to stop a suicide bomber or nutters with vehicles & knives with more beat bobbies.

1 of those terrorists was already spouting his crap publicly and spreading hatred, he should have been dealt with, everything currently is designed to be dealt with after an atrocity, we need to remove the problems before people lose their lives.

 

[Hobbit]

There were more police in 2005 and it didn't prevent 7/7 did it? You're not going to stop a suicide bomber or nutters with vehicles & knives with more beat bobbies.

1 of those terrorists was already spouting his crap publicly and spreading hatred, he should have been dealt with, everything currently is designed to be dealt with after an atrocity, we need to remove the problems before people lose their lives.

Careful Robin. There's too much sense in that...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There were more police in 2005 and it didn't prevent 7/7 did it? You're not going to stop a suicide bomber or nutters with vehicles & knives with more beat bobbies.

1 of those terrorists was already spouting his crap publicly and spreading hatred, he should have been dealt with, everything currently is designed to be dealt with after an atrocity, we need to remove the problems before people lose their lives.

Having more cutbacks certainly won't help and if they are being missed now how can we guarantee we won't miss even more, 1 of the 3 was not on any list or being watched.

 

[sawtooth]

We are not talking miliions of people here probably only a few thousand extremists in this country.

Systematically weed them out with better and stronger intelligence and by working with the muslim society who don't want them anymore than we do.

Then lock ISIS sympathisers up for good and anyone found travelling abroad for bomb making training and the like should never be allowed to return .

Strategically we need to stop interfering with matters abroad especially in countries with high muslim populations. The main driver for their hatred of westerners is that innocent muslim people are being killed in our own 'acts of terrior'

 

[bobmac]

We are not talking miliions of people here probably only a few thousand extremists in this country.

Systematically weed them out with better and stronger intelligence and by working with the muslim society who don't want them anymore than we do.

Then lock ISIS sympathisers up for good and anyone found travelling abroad for bomb making training and the like should never be allowed to return .

Strategically we need to stop interfering with matters abroad especially in countries with high muslim populations. The main driver for their hatred of westerners is that innocent muslim people are being killed in our own 'acts of terrior'

I agree

 

[SocketRocket]

Having more cutbacks certainly won't help and if they are being missed now how can we guarantee we won't miss even more, 1 of the 3 was not on any list or being watched.

More Plod in their cars is not the answer.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

More Plod in their cars is not the answer.

Yes it is, I'll play the game with you, the Police and local communities have stated one of the best deterrents and sources of information was policeing in the community and a valuable resource has been lost.

Also did not state more Police in cars did I?

We need more Police so they can cover all aspects of Policeing, not just the areas that suit your agenda.

We wouldn't need Troops on the streets if we had enough Police would we?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

More Plod in their cars is not the answer.

Increasing the budget , the resources , intelligence and the footfall on all our security forces is a better answer than anything else offered up on here - it's also the most realistic, sensible , humane and best way to tackle any threats whilst also ensuring we keep the fabric of the UK in tact.

 

[bobmac]

Increasing the budget , the resources , intelligence and the footfall on all our security forces is a better answer than anything else offered up on here - it's also the most realistic, sensible , humane and best way to tackle any threats whilst also ensuring we keep the fabric of the UK in tact.

[video=youtube;F5dyURwN4Uc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dyURwN4Uc[/video]

 

[Fish]

Systematically weed them out with better and stronger intelligence and by working with the muslim society who don't want them anymore than we do.

Then lock ISIS sympathisers up for good and anyone found travelling abroad for bomb making training and the like should never be allowed to return .'

But this is the problem with our current laws, we know who they are, we film them and protect them on our streets and in demonstrations, we know they've travelled back to Syria and returned, we know they have been watched and stopped from travelling when living in other countries, BUT, we don't do anything proactively until it's too late and innocent lives have been lost.

Your not going to catch these terrorists in the act, everything currently is in the past tense, extremists views and any acts of terrorist activity which includes preaching and spreading hate to incite violence and they are removed from the country with the citizenship they were afforded removed. If their British born then lock them up under HMP.

We are an island, we are not land locked, we should be able to protect ourselves far easier than we are currently, we just need to take off the softly softly gloves.

ID cards would help also imo.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

[video=youtube;F5dyURwN4Uc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dyURwN4Uc[/video]

And a massive reason why the Tories for me are dangerous - can't keep cutting everything and expect the same level of service , something is breaking and people will take advantage of the gaps being left by cuts

 

[Fish]

And a massive reason why the Tories for me are dangerous - can't keep cutting everything and expect the same level of service , something is breaking and people will take advantage of the gaps being left by cuts

There were no cuts in 2005 when 7/7 happened so what gaps were there then?

and the Labour Party wanted cuts recently of at least a further 10% but the tories kept things as they were and actually increased areas of intelligence and armed officers.

Your falling for the political volleyball that's being spewed out, labour change there mind and views on issues like the weather, do you honestly think Corbyn would invest more on armed officers, he's a huge left wing tree hugger, he's more dangerous than anyone and with Abbott by his side they are a disaster waiting to happen!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There were no cuts in 2005 when 7/7 happened so what gaps were there then?

and the Labour Party wanted cuts recently of at least a further 10% but the tories kept things as they were and actually increased areas of intelligence and armed officers.

Your falling for the political volleyball that's being spewed out, labour change there mind and views on issues like the weather, do you honestly think Corbyn would invest more on armed officers, he's a huge left wing tree hugger, he's more dangerous than anyone and with Abbott by his side they are a disaster waiting to happen!

I suspect that DA will be 'retired' from the Labour front bench.

 

[sawtooth]

But this is the problem with our current laws, we know who they are, we film them and protect them on our streets and in demonstrations, we know they've travelled back to Syria and returned, we know they have been watched and stopped from travelling when living in other countries, BUT, we don't do anything proactively until it's too late and innocent lives have been lost.

Your not going to catch these terrorists in the act, everything currently is in the past tense, extremists views and any acts of terrorist activity which includes preaching and spreading hate to incite violence and they are removed from the country with the citizenship they were afforded removed. If their British born then lock them up under HMP.

We are an island, we are not land locked, we should be able to protect ourselves far easier than we are currently, we just need to take off the softly softly gloves.

ID cards would help also imo.

I'm sure that the police and security services are already doing a lot of proactive work that will help identify suspects and prevent attacks from happening.

Just need more of the same, employ more people to follow up on more leads and tip offs from the public. And then deal with the suspects firmly and decisively. If they continue to do that and at the same time prevent people identified as high risk from entering the country then things should start to settle down a bit - hopefully.

My plan to eradicate this would include but not be limited to the following_

1. Better security, more police (armed and unarmed), and more people to investigate leads.
2. Punish people plotting to commit acts of terror very severly indeed
3. Prevent suspects including british nationals from returning to the UK if they have any cause for concern ie visiting bomb making schools
4. Force FB, Twitter, etc to remove extremist material, cut lines of communication, etc
5. Pull troops from places like Libya, Syria, Saudi, etc and let the rest of the middle east and Israel deal with their own issues. UK intereference is the main reason we have become targets in the first place.
6. Somehow get the muslim leaders in this country to do more to out these extremists and report them to the authorities.

 

[User62651]

My plan to eradicate this would include but not be limited to the following_

1. Better security, more police (armed and unarmed), and more people to investigate leads.
2. Punish people plotting to commit acts of terror very severly indeed
3. Prevent suspects including british nationals from returning to the UK if they have any cause for concern ie visiting bomb making schools
4. Force FB, Twitter, etc to remove extremist material, cut lines of communication, etc
5. Pull troops from places like Libya, Syria, Saudi, etc and let the rest of the middle east and Israel deal with their own issues. UK intereference is the main reason we have become targets in the first place.
6. Somehow get the muslim leaders in this country to do more to out these extremists and report them to the authorities.

1-3 I agree with, 4 is unworkable, 5 is nigh on impossible as UK helped create Israel post WW2 and there'd be genocide if Israel wasn't backed by the west militarily. 6 I agree with and is happening to a degree but informants haven't been taken seriously or followed up in numerous cases that have gone on to lead to atrocities (see your point 1).

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There were no cuts in 2005 when 7/7 happened so what gaps were there then?

and the Labour Party wanted cuts recently of at least a further 10% but the tories kept things as they were and actually increased areas of intelligence and armed officers.

Your falling for the political volleyball that's being spewed out, labour change there mind and views on issues like the weather, do you honestly think Corbyn would invest more on armed officers, he's a huge left wing tree hugger, he's more dangerous than anyone and with Abbott by his side they are a disaster waiting to happen!

If it was so bad and obvious back in 2005 why haven't the tories done anything in the last 7 years to address your concerns, they admit themselves the security services have been cut, buying an IT system and filling it with nil experienced graduates to man it is not as good as boots on the ground, but it's cheaper.

May has done nothing but U turn she was home secretary for 5 years, why didn't she attempt all these changes to human rights before? Why announce it 2 days before an election.

You've been saying enough is enough for months/weeks on here, she said it sunday.

You can't put any of this on Labour, they've not had control since 2010.

Am I saying Labour would be better, no I'm not, I just don't get all this trust in TM.

 

[Fish]

If it was so bad and obvious back in 2005 why haven't the tories done anything in the last 7 years to address your concerns, they admit themselves the security services have been cut, buying an IT system and filling it with nil experienced graduates to man it is not as good as boots on the ground, but it's cheaper.

May has done nothing but U turn she was home secretary for 5 years, why didn't she attempt all these changes to human rights before? Why announce it 2 days before an election.

You've been saying enough is enough for months/weeks on here, she said it sunday.

You can't put any of this on Labour, they've not had control since 2010.

Am I saying Labour would be better, no I'm not, I just don't get all this trust in TM.

You obviously announce changes because the threats and incidents have escalated recently, you can only make those recommendations and changes when you are faced with a growing situation, as we have in the last month, what us possibly ok and workable one month goes out the window 2 months later if there's an increase in terrorist activity at that time!

Changes and recommendations have to evolve with what is happening in real time situations, I'm all for prevention rather than cure, but does that mean we have armed officers on every street corner?

We all know Corbyns views on terrorism and any weapons, he's no answer to any faults May has, so I'll vote for her because to vote for him is too scary.

Again one of these terrorists was refused asylum in the U.K., but them narried an Irish woman and came here, it's these links and intel that needs massively tightening up but Ireland are unfortunately a very weak link in these circumstances.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You obviously announce changes because the threats and incidents have escalated recently, you can only make those recommendations and changes when you are faced with a growing situation, as we have in the last month, what us possibly ok and workable one month goes out the window 2 months later if there's an increase in terrorist activity at that time!

Changes and recommendations have to evolve with what is happening in real time situations, I'm all for prevention rather than cure, but does that mean we have armed officers on every street corner?

We all know Corbyns views on terrorism and any weapons, he's no answer to any faults May has, so I'll vote for her because to vote for him is too scary.

Again one of these terrorists was refused asylum in the U.K., but them narried an Irish woman and came here, it's these links and intel that needs massively tightening up but Ireland are unfortunately a very weak link in these circumstances.

I understand and agree we can't stand still, I also don't think we need armed police on every corner, but these escalations have happened on their watch, the cutbacks have taken a toll and the only party that won't committ to more coppers or to stop the cuts is the tories, they seem to want to criticise everyone else rather than explain their actions.