London Bridge incident

[CheltenhamHacker]

How on earth has someone like him received British citizenship? It's almost a tic box guarantee system, it's pathetic!

How do you expect those granting citizenship to have spotted his ability to become a radical when he came here as a child?

Re your point about "removing citizenship", then it's a case of innocent until proven guilty. You can call me a lefty all you like, but it's a complete necessity for a respectable country. The second you take that away for a specific crime (or even worse, for thinking you may commit a crime), the sooner it all falls apart.

What happens if your neighbour becomes convinced you're going to murder a number of people? Should we lock you up without a trial? Do you see the alley we would be going down...

 

[Fish]

The third London Bridge attacker has been named as Youssef Zaghba, a Moroccan-Italian man.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Whilst I have no feelings for people who kill other people, when I hear about people saying people should just be held for the sake of it, these cases always pops into my memory(therefore I do not agree with the simple hold them and use terror act laws just because) :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...d-their-abuse-of-anti-terror-legislation.html

All of the attacks are terrible.

 

[patricks148]

I'd be interested to know how many of these radicals that want to overthrow our way of life are claiming benefits?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As far as I can see - with atrocities such as Saturday night's the only way you'll stop any one individual perpetrating one is to have that individual under lock and key - because they only take minutes to carry out and can be carried out anywhere with almost no preparation. Lock up one unstable Islamofascist and another will do the deed. Answer to me just doesn't seem to be locking up everyone who just might perpetrate an atrocity...as attractive as that might seem. Rather somehow we need to cut off the oxygen that individuals need to grow disillusionment into hated and willingness to lose their life.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Whilst I have no feelings for people who kill other people, when I hear about people saying people should just be held for the sake of it, these cases always pops into my memory(therefore I do not agree with the simple hold them and use terror act laws just because) :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...d-their-abuse-of-anti-terror-legislation.html

All of the attacks are terrible.

To be fair, I really don't think an article written in 2005 is relevant today. Surveillance tools and techniques have moved on massively since then and the authorities don't incorrectly identify people very often these days. In the vast majority of cases the people they detain or question are implicated in terrorist activities in some way or other. I would rather someone was incorrectly held for 24 hours than left free to roam the streets and cause carnage. We can always send them a box of chocolates as an apology

 

[User62651]

To be fair, I really don't think an article written in 2005 is relevant today. Surveillance tools and techniques have moved on massively since then and the authorities don't incorrectly identify people very often these days. In the vast majority of cases the people they detain or question are implicated in terrorist activities in some way or other. I would rather someone was incorrectly held for 24 hours than left free to roam the streets and cause carnage. We can always send them a box of chocolates as an apology

Have to be wary of a repeat of the Jean Charles de Menenez debacle too, targets have to be confirmed absolutely.

 

[Slime]

Have to be wary of a repeat of the Jean Charles de Menenez debacle too, targets have to be confirmed absolutely.

Whilst I totally agree with this, I think we have to accept that there may be some degree of collateral damage when dealing with these sort of people.
I think it's unavoidable.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

To be fair, I really don't think an article written in 2005 is relevant today. Surveillance tools and techniques have moved on massively since then and the authorities don't incorrectly identify people very often these days. In the vast majority of cases the people they detain or question are implicated in terrorist activities in some way or other. I would rather someone was incorrectly held for 24 hours than left free to roam the streets and cause carnage. We can always send them a box of chocolates as an apology

You mean like all of the people arrested Sunday that have since been released?
And all of the people sent in front of the courts and found not guilty,when you say the authorities don't often get the wrong person? Innocent until guilty.

Whilst I totally agree with this, I think we have to accept that there may be some degree of collateral damage when dealing with these sort of people.
I think it's unavoidable.

It's pretty easy to condone collateral damage when it's not you in the firing line isn't it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You mean like all of the people arrested Sunday that have since been released?
And all of the people sent in front of the courts and found not guilty,when you say the authorities don't often get the wrong person? Innocent until guilty.


It's pretty easy to condone collateral damage when it's not you in the firing line isn't it.

..and when you are not of Middle Eastern or Afro-Caribbean heritage or appearance...sad but true

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

You mean like all of the people arrested Sunday that have since been released?
And all of the people sent in front of the courts and found not guilty,when you say the authorities don't often get the wrong person? Innocent until guilty.


It's pretty easy to condone collateral damage when it's not you in the firing line isn't it.

Yes exactly like those people. Unfortunately they have been inconvenienced but now eliminated from ongoing investigations so we can all breathe a little bit easier. Do you have an issue with that or would you prefer that potential terrorists weren't checked out?

 

[SocketRocket]

..and when you are not of Middle Eastern or Afro-Caribbean heritage or appearance...sad but true

They all are though. Not sure of Afro-Caribbean though, by that I guess you mean Black?

 

[SocketRocket]

How do you expect those granting citizenship to have spotted his ability to become a radical when he came here as a child?

Re your point about "removing citizenship", then it's a case of innocent until proven guilty. You can call me a lefty all you like, but it's a complete necessity for a respectable country. The second you take that away for a specific crime (or even worse, for thinking you may commit a crime), the sooner it all falls apart.

What happens if your neighbour becomes convinced you're going to murder a number of people? Should we lock you up without a trial? Do you see the alley we would be going down...

If my neighbor had reasonable grounds to believe I was about to murder someone the police should take me into custody and investigate it.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

If my neighbor had reasonable grounds to believe I was about to murder someone the police should take me into custody and investigate it.

As long as you don't mind being shipped somewhere else while that happens, as seems to be the suggestion here! I'm very happy with the current system and the ability the police have to arrest under suspicion. It's everyone else who seems to think we're too lenient and should jump to conclusions with minimal evidence (or even worse, if someone in your family has done something)

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Yes exactly like those people. Unfortunately they have been inconvenienced but now eliminated from ongoing investigations so we can all breathe a little bit easier. Do you have an issue with that or would you prefer that potential terrorists weren't checked out?

I'm fine with the current system. What is it you would like to see changed?

 

[Slime]

You mean like all of the people arrested Sunday that have since been released?
And all of the people sent in front of the courts and found not guilty,when you say the authorities don't often get the wrong person? Innocent until guilty.

It's pretty easy to condone collateral damage when it's not you in the firing line isn't it.

I think you'll find that there are far fewer in that firing line than in the firing line of terrorists.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I think you'll find that there are far fewer in that firing line than in the firing line of terrorists.

On what grounds? So far we've talked about including 3,000 on the watch list, plus their families. I'm sure there are more extreme views out there about who should be included.
Victims of terrorism in the UK in the last 10 years are about 100-150.

 

[doublebogey7]

You mean like all of the people arrested Sunday that have since been released?
And all of the people sent in front of the courts and found not guilty,when you say the authorities don't often get the wrong person? Innocent until guilty.


It's pretty easy to condone collateral damage when it's not you in the firing line isn't it.

And no better a recruitment agent for the likes of ISIS

 

[SocketRocket]

As long as you don't mind being shipped somewhere else while that happens, as seems to be the suggestion here! I'm very happy with the current system and the ability the police have to arrest under suspicion. It's everyone else who seems to think we're too lenient and should jump to conclusions with minimal evidence (or even worse, if someone in your family has done something)

I'm a bit confused at what your concern is. If it's the Police arresting close associates of terrorists after they have killed people then I fail to understand it. It is quite reasonable to assume that family and people in close association with the killers may be part of their support network and arresting them to either confirm collusion or rule it out is understandable. It may cause some short term disruption to the innocent but hopefully will lead to early apprehension of the guilty. We are living in some very dangerous times and must expect some intrusion to our normal way of life sometimes in the pursuance of apprehending those that would kill us.

 

[SocketRocket]

And no better a recruitment agent for the likes of ISIS

And making their evil plans easier to achieve if we run scared in the name of their Human Rights.