bluewolf
Money List Winner
As a child of German and Irish immigrants (2 countries who've detonated more explosives on British soil than every other nation put together), I'd be interested to know just when my family becomes British?
London Bridge incident
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
As a child of German and Irish immigrants (2 countries who've detonated more explosives on British soil than every other nation put together), I'd be interested to know just when my family becomes British?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
How long before someone born in this country from parents who have moved to the country from foreign lands are allowed to be given a passport ?
With your idea my wife wouldn't be given a British passport because her parents are from Ireland.
And again it's the same thing - the child born in this country can't be sent to where they come from because they come from Britian
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
They could be British as soon as they qualify for British residency but I believe the suggestion was the third generation before they would be immune from deportation for acts of terrorism. As you are aware citizens of the Irish Republic have always been given special residency rights in he UK and can also vote in elections.
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D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I think you've earned your right to stay Danny due to services to our brewing industry :thup:
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I suspect your relatives bombed our chippy and you were obviously part of the conspiracy of silence. So I say deport you straight away back to Germania where you came from, Herr Blauer Wolf.
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
Terrible shame for all the victims so sad, I think it would help if our government would stop selling arms to countries in the Middle East and put more pressure on Saudi Arabia to curb the militants
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
What on earth has that to do with it, they never came from Saudi
You do realise how many jobs we would lose if we did that and do you think Saudi would not buy weapons from France or Russia if we never sold them.
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
.What on earth has that to do with it, they never came from Saudi
You do realise how many jobs we would lose if we did that and do you think Saudi would not buy weapons from France or Russia if we never sold them.
If you look at the bigger picture I think it has a lot to do with it, the Saudis are one of the largest countries in the region bankrolling the extreme terroist factions which are creating havoc worldwide and imo it doesn't help our government selling arms to the Saudis and some other countries in this region. Would it not be better for our government to put more pressure on these governments to try and stop the militants?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
What on earth has that to do with it, they never came from Saudi
You do realise how many jobs we would lose if we did that and do you think Saudi would not buy weapons from France or Russia if we never sold them.
Being the main Saudi strain of Islam - Wahhabism gives moral grounding to ISIS and extreme Islamism - and justification in the eyes of those who perpetrate these atrocities. Somehow Wahhibism must be completely rejected by the global Muslim community and their religious leaders as an obscene corruption of Islam that is counter to the teachings of Allah
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin - US Founding Father
Benjamin Franklin - US Founding Father
You're not wrong. But how does that square with the majority of arabs across the Middle East and North Africa supporting the creation of a Caliphate?
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I think this country needs to clarify what type of society we want to be, the current one is not working and these recent attacks are a symptom of what has been going on with society and the way it has become fractured and lacking cohesion. IMO what we need a clear division between regular society and religion, we should all be British Citizens with clear shared values that encourage people to live as a single community in our everyday lives. Diversity of religion cannot be denied but should not be the defining characteristic for our citizenship. We should not be a British Muslim, Jew, Christian, Sikh or Hindu, we should be secular regarding our nationality. Multiculturalism has been a great failure where it encourages communities to look at themselves in a segmented way, no one should suggest they are a Muslim, Christian etc to define their community, that should be British first, English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish next and their religion something personal. It would be a long hard job to do this but it should start with our political structure being Secular, the C of E should be divorced from the State, Bishops removed fro the HOL and cultural diversity discouraged.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
It might not - but you have to start somewhere and where measures and actions are clearly available. Yes - our defence industry (and a big lump my pension) depends hugely on Saudi spending. The question is - is loss of it a price worth paying if sanctions and cancelling of sales to Saudi can be coordinated across nations?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I actually agree with this. We do need clarification.
In which case when Tim Farron says that he does not let any of his faith beliefs impact his secular approach to politics and policy - we should believe him and not press him on any of his specific religious beliefs - these being - along with family, completely personal matters and of no import to anyone else.
Fortunately we are not down, or that close to, the route of the USA at the moment - where Bragger rewarded Pence for his support by giving him the Vice-Presidency and forbidding US foreign aid going to groups that provide abortions; and indeed with the intent of stopping tax-payer funding of abortion in the US.
But you can't stop someone defining themselves in respect of their faith before their nationality - many of strong faith do so. Now that may be incomprehensible to those of no faith, but I myself do understand why they might wish to see themselves that way.
That aside - I most certainly see a very valid position for those of faith expressing views of social, cultural and economic matters from a faith perspective. Whether the CoE should actually be involved in the political decision making process I am not so sure.
There's lot of truth in both yours and SR's posts. But on one point, someone of a strong religious belief would/should be more tolerant of other views, not less so as we are seeing across the world.
Relgion teaches compassion, not killing.
Should Farron bring his strong faith into decision making in a multi-religious and atheist/agnostic society? No. But only because it will offend others who disagree with his religion, not his politics.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I agree totally. The lack of tolerance of fundamentalist Islamists corrupting the message of Allah through their own twisted interpretation of the Quran - or indeed fundamentalist Christians twisting the message of God as laid out in the Bible - are equally alien to my own beliefs. That they find expression in different way does not change the bottom line.
Farron has faith beliefs - some of which may be unacceptable to others - but as far as I am aware he keeps any that might be controversial away from his political stance and polices. That some of his beliefs will place him on what many will see as a snowflake leftie side of the argument is inevitable but not unacceptable.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Although I don't like Farron as a Politician it's nothing to do with his religion, I think he has been very good at keeping it out of his political life, I agree that it has been wrong for people to keep pushing him to explain his religious viewpoints.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I think it is time for us to move the goalposts. It is all well and good trying to hold the moral high ground and do everything 'by the book' but unfortunately that is costing lives.
My view is that you are 'British' if you buy into our way of life and accept our morals, standards, ethics and values. Just because someone was born here and holds a British passport does not in my mind become British if they wish to kill and maim other British citizens. Regardless of where these people were born they should be rounded up and sent to the country of their choice, if that also affects their families then so be it because they should have thought about the implications before going down the road of the religious extremist.
Once that is done there is a better chance of all faiths and colours living in a harmonious society which is to everyones benefit. I know some on here will strongly disagree with these views but with the frequency of these attacks increasing something radical needs to be done.
I also fear that we may start seeing vigilante attacks by way of reprisal and that is a very dangerous road to go down!
My view is that you are 'British' if you buy into our way of life and accept our morals, standards, ethics and values. Just because someone was born here and holds a British passport does not in my mind become British if they wish to kill and maim other British citizens. Regardless of where these people were born they should be rounded up and sent to the country of their choice, if that also affects their families then so be it because they should have thought about the implications before going down the road of the religious extremist.
Once that is done there is a better chance of all faiths and colours living in a harmonious society which is to everyones benefit. I know some on here will strongly disagree with these views but with the frequency of these attacks increasing something radical needs to be done.
I also fear that we may start seeing vigilante attacks by way of reprisal and that is a very dangerous road to go down!
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
U
User62651
Guest
Re the first bold parts can you define what these are and will they not just end up our old Christian values - how is that multiculturalism? They just have to obey the law like every citizen and govt needs to make sure the law is fit for purpose, the law is key in this, not untangible morals and standards. Much tougher laws required.
Re second bold part what countries would willingly or be seen to take suspected wannabee or actual terrorists from us? There will be no ISIL homeland left soon, they're about to lose Mosul and Raqqa and their oil fields that raise funding are depleting fast. Although Russia and America have conflicting interests/allies in the region they are both hitting ISIL hard at least.
The home grown jihadis are our problem that we have to sort out from within somehow.
Interesting maps on the current state of play in Iraq/Syria here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27838034
