London Bridge incident

[Smiffy]

Re second bold part what countries would willingly or be seen to take suspected wannabee or actual terrorists from us?

None. So you build a massive great circular brick wall, no doors or windows, and you drop them all in there from a helicopter. From a height where they just might break their legs. And then you leave them in there with no food or water. It will go quiet after about two weeks or so. Job done.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Re the first bold parts can you define what these are and will they not just end up our old Christian values - how is that multiculturalism? They just have to obey the law like every citizen and govt needs to make sure the law is fit for purpose, the law is key in this, not untangible morals and standards. Much tougher laws required.

Re second bold part what countries would willingly or be seen to take suspected wannabee or actual terrorists from us? There will be no ISIL homeland left soon, they're about to lose Mosul and Raqqa and their oil fields that raise funding are depleting fast. Although Russia and America have conflicting interests/allies in the region they are both hitting ISIL hard at least.

The home grown jihadis are our problem that we have to sort out from within somehow.

Interesting maps on the current state of play in Iraq/Syria here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27838034

With regards to British values then this is taught in schools nowadays and they are defined as democracy, rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs. You know, the kind of thing we see on here every day.

 

[Kellfire]

None. So you build a massive great circular brick wall, no doors or windows, and you drop them all in there from a helicopter. From a height where they just might break their legs. And then you leave them in there with no food or water. It will go quiet after about two weeks or so. Job done.

Aren't you a lovely member of society?!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Loving the London Mayor and Commissioner of Met Police making statements standing side-by-side. The former a fully integrated Muslim; the latter a gay woman.

Khan and Dick - two individuals who embody all that the Islamofascists hate, standing up against them - and who exemplify all that we cherish in our society - as @HK says - democracy, rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

None. So you build a massive great circular brick wall, no doors or windows, and you drop them all in there from a helicopter. From a height where they just might break their legs. And then you leave them in there with no food or water. It will go quiet after about two weeks or so. Job done.

See book (by James Dashner) and film - The Maze Runner.

 

[Smiffy]

Aren't you a lovely member of society?!

I like to think I am.
But they're not so get rid of 'em.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Can a potential suicide bomber be sanctioned under the Mental Health Act as they pose a risk to themselves? Indeed can anyone be held indefinitely under the Mental Health Act if it is deemed that they are a threat to themselves or others.

You could argue that anyone who holds Islamofascist views with intent to harm self or others is mentally unstable, and hence could and should be legally locked up for their own and others protection.

 

[Tashyboy]

.

If you look at the bigger picture I think it has a lot to do with it, the Saudis are one of the largest countries in the region bankrolling the extreme terroist factions which are creating havoc worldwide and imo it doesn't help our government selling arms to the Saudis and some other countries in this region. Would it not be better for our government to put more pressure on these governments to try and stop the militants?

Ironically ribby me man, the Saudis and five other Mid East countries have today stopped all diplomatic relations with Qatar. Yup the same place where the World Cup is going. They accuse the qataris of bank rolling terrorism, both at government level and rich Qatari individuals. And destabilising the Mid East.
having read all the posts. I am English and respect all faiths, sexes etc etc etc. But and this is a massive but, respect and tolerance is a two way street. Some don't see it that way. Re recent events. These extremist scum do not recognise a country's boundarys. There faith (or lack of ) overrides any loyalty to a country, religion, sex, race etc etc.

 

[Fish]

Can a potential suicide bomber be sanctioned under the Mental Health Act as they pose a risk to themselves? Indeed can anyone be held indefinitely under the Mental Health Act if it is deemed that they are a threat to themselves or others.

You could argue that anyone who holds Islamofascist views with intent to harm self or others is mentally unstable, and hence could and should be legally locked up for their own and others protection.

Not sure why you need to overcomplicate it, the sentence for terrorist activity simply needs to be at "HMP" (her majesties pleasure) with no grounds for release.

Why release anyone who has been involved in terrorism, they are only going to jump through the hoops whilst inside and be of good behaviour so they can be released as soon as possible, and then guess what.........booom!

Life needs to be life for terrorism acts, build a specific large remote jail which is as basic as it can be with 90% bang up with the minimum amount of exercise.

No TV's or pool tables etc, proper slop-out bang-up victorian style jail, but leave them their belts on, you never know, they might take the easy option out and save us some money and help keep the jail population down.

 

[Hobbit]

Can a potential suicide bomber be sanctioned under the Mental Health Act as they pose a risk to themselves? Indeed can anyone be held indefinitely under the Mental Health Act if it is deemed that they are a threat to themselves or others.

You could argue that anyone who holds Islamofascist views with intent to harm self or others is mentally unstable, and hence could and should be legally locked up for their own and others protection.

Something I've considered too. If you're mad enough to kill yourself, you're definitely in need of 'care' at her Majesty's pleasure. And of course, tongue firmly in cheek, your whole family may need their genes checking...

 

[Tashyboy]

Not sure why you need to overcomplicate it, the sentence for terrorist activity simply needs to be at "HMP" (her majesties pleasure) with no grounds for release.

Why release anyone who has been involved in terrorism, they are only going to jump through the hoops whilst inside and be of good behaviour so they can be released as soon as possible, and then guess what.........booom!

Life needs to be life for terrorism acts, build a specific large remote jail which is as basic as it can be with 90% bang up with the minimum amount of exercise.

No TV's or pool tables etc, proper slop-out bang-up victorian style jail, but leave them their belts on, you never know, they might take the easy option out and save us some money and help keep the jail population down.

Actually fish, putting the terrorists inside with the general population is creating massive problems in our nicks. They are preying on the weak and vulnerable cons and converting them into future problems.

The answer may well be in building a seperate jail for them.

 

[Fish]

Actually fish, putting the terrorists inside with the general population is creating massive problems in our nicks. They are preying on the weak and vulnerable cons and converting them into future problems.

The answer may well be in building a seperate jail for them.

I'm not sure how and why they'd be within the general population, and more importantly, they shouldn't have access to vulnerable prisoners.

All convicted prisoners are categorised, so the more vulnerable who are inside on lesser convicted crimes are D-cat and in opens, then C-cat & B-cat accordingly, I would like to think that all terrorist convictions in any shape would be A-cat or even a special category and that would mean they were only in with the hardened criminals on very long sentences and if so, I don't think many of them would come out their cells. I'd have thought they got sectioned like the nonces?

Either way, build it, and I don't think it would stay full, they'd rather die but this way they wouldn't take anyone with them...ever....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure why you need to overcomplicate it, the sentence for terrorist activity simply needs to be at "HMP" (her majesties pleasure) with no grounds for release.

Why release anyone who has been involved in terrorism, they are only going to jump through the hoops whilst inside and be of good behaviour so they can be released as soon as possible, and then guess what.........booom!

Life needs to be life for terrorism acts, build a specific large remote jail which is as basic as it can be with 90% bang up with the minimum amount of exercise.

No TV's or pool tables etc, proper slop-out bang-up victorian style jail, but leave them their belts on, you never know, they might take the easy option out and save us some money and help keep the jail population down.

Surely the point is that it is under existing legislation - and for reasons just shifted once away from anti-terror - with the implications to the Muslim community. Move it to an individual's mental health and it might feel a bit different...

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not sure why you need to overcomplicate it, the sentence for terrorist activity simply needs to be at "HMP" (her majesties pleasure) with no grounds for release.

Why release anyone who has been involved in terrorism, they are only going to jump through the hoops whilst inside and be of good behaviour so they can be released as soon as possible, and then guess what.........booom!

Life needs to be life for terrorism acts, build a specific large remote jail which is as basic as it can be with 90% bang up with the minimum amount of exercise.

No TV's or pool tables etc, proper slop-out bang-up victorian style jail, but leave them their belts on, you never know, they might take the easy option out and save us some money and help keep the jail population down.

I still am failing to see how longer jail sentences will put off suicide bombers? It seems to me that in every incident they either blow themselves up or know they will get killed. So why would the prospect of a long time in jail stop them following that path when the certainty of death does not?

 

[Tashyboy]

I'm not sure how and why they'd be within the general population, and more importantly, they shouldn't have access to vulnerable prisoners.

All convicted prisoners are categorised, so the more vulnerable who are inside on lesser convicted crimes are D-cat and in opens, then C-cat & B-cat accordingly, I would like to think that all terrorist convictions in any shape would be A-cat or even a special category and that would mean they were only in with the hardened criminals on very long sentences and if so, I don't think many of them would come out their cells. I'd have thought they got sectioned like the nonces?

Either way, build it, and I don't think it would stay full, they'd rather die but this way they wouldn't take anyone with them...ever....

Was talking to a guy who is a gaffer at a local prison, some of the folk sent down are people who were prevented from certain incidents. We're not talking one or two, these are the people that groom.

 

[Fish]

Surely the point is that it is under existing legislation - and for reasons just shifted once away from anti-terror - with the implications to the Muslim community. Move it to an individual's mental health and it might feel a bit different...

HMP is an existing legislative sentence.

I still am failing to see how longer jail sentences will put off suicide bombers? It seems to me that in every incident they either blow themselves up or know they will get killed. So why would the prospect of a long time in jail stop them following that path when the certainty of death does not?

If it stopped just 1 young man suddenly not going through with it, would it be worth it?

We've heard of a few situations when the rucksacks have been dumped, usually by those younger converts with last minute reservations, maybe it wouldn't even go that far with the fear of being caught after not going through it but then never seeing the light of day!

Again if it creates doubt with those being more easily led towards these atrocities, they might just think twice, run and hide.

We need a fear factor, death isn't it as they're too comfortable with that, but being locked up forever with the most basic provisions, well I don't think they want to face that kind of isolation!

You obviously won't put off the mad fanatic so we need create something else also to reach into these closed shop communities and create a fear factor so they feel that they must report anything they know or are suspicious of or it could affect them in some way, especially if preachers are involved in some way that are not British born, just ship them out ASAP.

 

[Fish]

Was talking to a guy who is a gaffer at a local prison, some of the folk sent down are people who were prevented from certain incidents. We're not talking one or two, these are the people that groom.

Again though, in any convicted crime related to terrorism in any aspect, it needs to be a Cat-A or stronger, they can't be in the general population with all their special diets and special needs being woke up to pray etc and sticking all together in their cliques.

I special remote victorian style jail for terrorists as basic as it comes all lumped together but in isolation, no frills, minimum exercise and 90% bang-up, removes all the grooming and them playing the system with all their special needs.

Terrorism is an act of treason, anyone convicted of a terrorist act loses all their rights to be treated with any extra civility other than the most basic of needs.

 

[Kellfire]

Again though, in any convicted crime related to terrorism in any aspect, it needs to be a Cat-A or stronger, they can't be in the general population with all their special diets and special needs being woke up to pray etc and sticking all together in their cliques.

I special remote victorian style jail for terrorists as basic as it comes all lumped together but in isolation, no frills, minimum exercise and 90% bang-up, removes all the grooming and them playing the system with all their special needs.

Terrorism is an act of treason, anyone convicted of a terrorist act loses all their rights to be treated with any extra civility other than the most basic of needs.

So you're in favour of us breaching many different aspects of their legally protected human rights?

To tackle savage behaviour, we should become less civilised?

Nah, not for me thanks. Thankfully their are laws that prevent us from regressing in this way.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So you're in favour of us breaching many different aspects of their legally protected human rights?

To tackle savage behaviour, we should become less civilised?

Nah, not for me thanks. Thankfully their are laws that prevent us from regressing in this way.

Fret ye not. The May Manifesto has UK remaining in the ECHR - notwithstanding that she was planning to make the case for UK leaving it for the 2020 GE.

'The ECHR protects freedoms such as the prohibition of torture, slavery, the right to a fair trial and freedom of expression'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ave-eu-next-parliament-election-a7742436.html

And as an aside this rather scuppers Paul Nuttall's wish for UK to start water-boarding terror suspects,

Unfortunately...this manifesto pledge only seems to apply

...while the process of Brexit is under way," although it said consideration will be given to the UK's "human rights legal framework" when Brexit concludes

 

[Smiffy]

So you're in favour of us breaching many different aspects of their legally protected human rights?

So that bloke that blew himself up, taking all those young kids with him had legally protected human rights?
Wow!!
Who'd have thought it.