Lining up putt using putter as guide

[DickInShorts]

Can one of our experts advise if this is allowed:

Guy I play with lays his putter on the green on a line parallel with the line from his ball to the hole when he replaces his ball after marking. He uses this. As a guide for lining up the ball (with a line marked in the ball) for putting.

TIA

 

[Steven Rules]

I am having trouble picturing what the player is doing but, if the putter is being set down to show the line of play then, no, that is not permitted. A few words from Rule 10.2b:

Pointing Out Line of Play for Ball on Putting Green. .....The player or caddie must not set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play. This is not allowed even if that object is removed before the stroke is made.

No Setting Down Object to Help in Taking Stance. A player must not take a stance for the stroke using any object that was set down by or for the player to help in lining up his or her feet or body, such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play.
If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away from the stance and removing the object.

 

[evemccc]

Can one of our experts advise if this is allowed:

Guy I play with lays his putter on the green on a line parallel with the line from his ball to the hole when he replaces his ball after marking. He uses this. As a guide for lining up the ball (with a line marked in the ball) for putting.

TIA

i played with someone who does this but he hovered it above the grass - I *think* he said it was legit if the putter didn’t touch the ground

Edit: So based on what @Steven Rules has just typed, it would be legit if it hovered above the ground

 

[DickInShorts]

He lays the putter on the green on a line parallel to his putt and lines up the ball parallel to the putter

Sounds like what he does is not allowed

Thanks both

 

[jim8flog]

No it is a breach of the rules and it occurs a a penalty as soon as it is laid down
rule 10.1 b

(3) No Setting Down Object to Help in Taking Stance. A player must not take a stance for the stroke using any object that was set down by or for the player to help in lining up his or her feet or body, such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play.
If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away from the stance and removing the object.

 

[YandaB]

No it is a breach of the rules and it occurs a a penalty as soon as it is laid down
rule 10.1 b

(3) No Setting Down Object to Help in Taking Stance. A player must not take a stance for the stroke using any object that was set down by or for the player to help in lining up his or her feet or body, such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play.
If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away from the stance and removing the object.

But in the OP they are lining up the ball not taking a stance. This is more about setting something down to show the line of play.

This reminds me of a silly conversation on the green the other day, "can I move this leaf off my line?", "sure, or you can leaf it there to show you your line", ? I'll get my coat!

 

[jim8flog]

But in the OP they are lining up the ball not taking a stance. This is more about setting something down to show the line of play.

This reminds me of a silly conversation on the green the other day, "can I move this leaf off my line?", "sure, or you can leaf it there to show you your line", ? I'll get my coat!

I think the important bit is
'such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play'

 

[salfordlad]

There is a distinction that needs to be drawn. Putting the club/object on the ground to assist with alignment is illegitimate if the club/object is let go ("setting it down").
Laying it on the ground - eg behind the ball or ball marker on the green - to help view/read the line without letting it go is not a breach. This is not setting an object down.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is a distinction that needs to be drawn. Putting the club/object on the ground to assist with alignment is illegitimate if the club/object is let go ("setting it down").
Laying it on the ground - eg behind the ball or ball marker on the green - to help view/read the line without letting it go is not a breach. This is not setting an object down.

So I could lie my putter on the green pointing along my line of putt and as long as I kept hold of it (or kept touching it) I could use my other hand to place ball on green beside it and align a line on my ball to the putter shaft? But if during doing this I even only momentarily let go the putter then penalty.

 

[salfordlad]

So I could lie my putter on the green pointing along my line of putt and as long as I kept hold of it (or kept touching it) I could use my other hand to place ball on green beside it and align a line on my ball to the putter shaft? But if during doing this I even only momentarily let go the putter then penalty.

Providing there is nothing set down (let go) there is no breach of 10.2b(2) from this action.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Providing there is nothing set down (let go) there is no breach of 10.2b(2) from this action.

OK, that’s fine but let me be really pedantic. ‘Not letting go‘ of the putter is not the same as ‘Not touching’ my putter. Can I set down my putter on the green pointing along the line of my putt, and before putting my ball down I lay the palm of my hand on the putter and keep it there as I fiddle with my ball (as it were). Just for clarity rather than thinking I’d ever do it.

Aside. My clubs +8 (HI +6.7 ?) lass will set her ball down with ball line pointing down her chosen line of putt. She does not pick up her ball marker at this point. She will then crouch low behind the ball holding her putter almost level in front of her also down the line of her putt, then carefully checks line on ball against line of putter. She then tweaks ball to make sure of its alignment with her putter. When happy she removes ball marker, addresses the ball…then holes the putt….?

 

[salfordlad]

OK, that’s fine but let me be really pedantic. ‘Not letting go‘ of the putter is not the same as ‘Not touching’ myutter. Can set down my putter on the green pointing along the line of my putt, and before putting my ball down I lay the palm of my hand on the putter and keep it there as I fiddle with my ball (as it were). Just for clarity rather than thinking I’d ever do it.

Aside. My clubs +8 (HI +6.7 ?) lass will set her ball down with ball line pointing down her chosen line of putt. She does not pick up her ball marker at this point. She will then crouch low behind the ball holding her putter almost level in front of her also down the line of her putt, then carefully checks line on ball against line of putter. She then tweaks ball to make sure of its alignment with her putter. When happy she removes ball marker, addresses the ball…then holes the putt….?

????????? If you have set it down you are in breach of the rule, period. Aligning ball with ball marker is no breach.

 

[rulefan]

[

Can set down my putter on the green pointing along the line of my putt, and before putting my ball down I lay the palm of my hand on the putter and keep it there as I fiddle with my ball (as it were). Just for clarity rather than thinking I’d ever do it.

You have already set it down. You can't undo that without picking it up.

 

[salfordlad]

[


You have already set it down. You can't undo that without picking it up.

You can't undo it, period. See the second bullet point of 10.2b(2).

 

[rulefan]

You can't undo it, period. See the second bullet point of 10.2b(2).

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I think the important bit is
'such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play'

That bit is in the part talking about stance, so it isn't a relevant bit because the whole part isn't relevant.
The part of the rule broken is this
Pointing Out Line of Play for Ball on Putting Green. .....The player or caddie must not set an object down anywhere on or off the putting green to show the line of play. This is not allowed even if that object is removed before the stroke is made.

 

[DickInShorts]

My query related to a guy who places his putter on the green but does not let go of it whilst he is lining up the ball using the putter as a parallel guide.

From the above this is ok as long as he doesn’t let go of the putter

 

[rulefan]

10.2b(3)/1 seems to suggest letting go or holding on to the putter is not a factor.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and I was being deliberately pedantic in respect of the use of the word 'hold' rather than 'touch' in the context of 'setting it down' So OK, let's try this.

I place my ball onto the green and then in placing my putter down on the line I want, I (somehow) loosen my grip on it so that it is only the palm of my hand that is on the putter handle. I then fiddle about with my ball but do not 'lose touch' with my putter throughout.

Yes I know - why I'd ever want to do this I do not know - but in the rules the precise words are very important and I am just interested.

 

[Backsticks]

Aside. My clubs +8 (HI +6.7 ?) lass will set her ball down with ball line pointing down her chosen line of putt. She does not pick up her ball marker at this point. She will then crouch low behind the ball holding her putter almost level in front of her also down the line of her putt, then carefully checks line on ball against line of putter. She then tweaks ball to make sure of its alignment with her putter. When happy she removes ball marker, addresses the ball…then holes the putt….?

Aside, aside. Pity her playing partners have already teed off on the next hole by time she goes through all of that to see the putt holed. For all the exhortations to speed up play, until those types of antics are actually prohibited by the rules, no real increase in playing pace will happen.