Kuch the cheapskate!

[Grant85]

I also reckon a caddie used to working with tourists who have vanity handicaps is potentially not all that useful (and maybe even a bit dangerous) for a Tour Pro.
Obviously Kuch can put it on a dinner plate and I would imagine if you are used to working with tourists who don't, then your yardages and lines may well be more of an approximation.

Wouldn't be surprised if Kuchar was doing his own yardages and lines.

Again, going back to Westwood, when Helen is on the bag he is doing all his own yardages, and even raking the bunkers. I actually think for him, that really helps him. Makes him completely focus on every shot and remain engaged in the round for the entire 18 holes. Perhaps that happened with Kuchar that week in Mexico.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Presumably there is a guide for pro's who use local caddies as to what they pay if they get top 10, 5 or win? I would not expect it to be the usual 10% but there may be some sort of agreed bonus. This can't be the first time something like this has happened so I would expect Kuchar, or his management team, will have just copied what others have done before.

In terms of Westwood was the caddie not his other half? That means she is getting a share of the prize money anyway.

 

[Slab]

Presumably there is a guide for pro's who use local caddies as to what they pay if they get top 10, 5 or win? I would not expect it to be the usual 10% but there may be some sort of agreed bonus. This can't be the first time something like this has happened so I would expect Kuchar, or his management team, will have just copied what others have done before.

In terms of Westwood was the caddie not his other half? That means she is getting a share of the prize money anyway.

Saw in a golf channel bit with a women pro that the LPGA make recommendations to their pros for exactly this scenario with temp caddy (no idea if the PGA do, there wasn't a male player in the studio to ask)

 

[PhilTheFragger]

"Get a life"

What a well thought out response. Added lots to the thread Mr Mod.

As you are quite aware people are welcomed to debate and discuss all topics.

👍

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier reply

Even though I’m a moderator, I’m still a member and allowed to post my thoughts ....

If that’s ok 👍

 

[dronfield]

Hi
i read somewhere that they have not released the exact figure that the caddie was paid in order to "protect" him - ie, so it was not potentially public knowledge in the area that he had suddenly come into a lot of money.
Obviously, like a lot of the info regarding this story, it is pure conjecture, but i can see the logic in the thought process.

Rich

 

[Steve Bamford]

You'd assume the original deal was $3k for the week. Which is decent enough money. Remember Kuchar was horribly out form. From that point onwards it looks like Matt has paid / was forced to pay another lump sum on top, as is only appropriate.

 

[Dasit]

$3k for 4 days work

Seems decent to me.


Why does what Kuchar make matter to what the caddy is paid?



Total non story.

 

[RePete]

I am a regular reader here, but I just had to respond to this one.

First off, let's assume for the sake of argument that its true that he only paid him $3000 or thereabouts (if its not true, ok, we don't know, but there have been rumours before about him being cheap, so there is that...)

Now, if its true, anyone defending him is out of their mind in my opinion. Yea, sure they agreed beforehand on $3000. Well, first, what choice did the guy have? He is a poor guy who needs to feed his family, so he pretty much had to accept anything. Saying if you can get away with paying the lowest amount possible to someone, then good on ya, that's what you should do, is a pretty bad excuse. I suppose you are in favour of all companies paying as little as possible, which essentially means pay just enough so someone can eat sometimes, because there will always be someone who needs to eat, who will take less.

Now secondly, I guarantee if Kuch told him he would pay him 3000, he didn't also add, "Oh, and by the way, I am not going to give you much of a tip, so don't even think of that. In fact, I probably won't give you any tip at all."

Now can you imagine someone going to a restaurant, leaving ten percent tip (or maybe 3 percent) and then after they left leaving their wallet behind containing 50,000 dollars in it. The waitress, who did a great job for you, sees this, chases you outside to catch you just as you are driving away and breathlessly says, Oh, you almost left this. And then the person who gets their wallet back, a multi-millionaire many times over says, Gee, thanks, here's my photo-see ya!

If its true, low low low class. Guarantee its not what Mickelson would have given.

 

[Papas1982]

I am a regular reader here, but I just had to respond to this one.

First off, let's assume for the sake of argument that its true that he only paid him $3000 or thereabouts (if its not true, ok, we don't know, but there have been rumours before about him being cheap, so there is that...)

Now, if its true, anyone defending him is out of their mind in my opinion. Yea, sure they agreed beforehand on $3000. Well, first, what choice did the guy have? He is a poor guy who needs to feed his family, so he pretty much had to accept anything. Saying if you can get away with paying the lowest amount possible to someone, then good on ya, that's what you should do, is a pretty bad excuse. I suppose you are in favour of all companies paying as little as possible, which essentially means pay just enough so someone can eat sometimes, because there will always be someone who needs to eat, who will take less.

Now secondly, I guarantee if Kuch told him he would pay him 3000, he didn't also add, "Oh, and by the way, I am not going to give you much of a tip, so don't even think of that. In fact, I probably won't give you any tip at all."

Now can you imagine someone going to a restaurant, leaving ten percent tip (or maybe 3 percent) and then after they left leaving their wallet behind containing 50,000 dollars in it. The waitress, who did a great job for you, sees this, chases you outside to catch you just as you are driving away and breathlessly says, Oh, you almost left this. And then the person who gets their wallet back, a multi-millionaire many times over says, Gee, thanks, here's my photo-see ya!
If its true, low low low class. Guarantee its not what Mickelson would have given.

Phil is as money hungry as anyone! Have you seen what he does for money!

As for for forcing the bloke to work for 3k. That’s double his standard wage. Whether people agree with the tip or not has clearly been shown to split opinion. But I can’t see how paying someone Doubke their wage for their usual job is mugging someone off.

The analogy of a waitress is ridiculous too tbh, you tip a waitress let’s say 10% of the cost of your meal for good service. Let’s say even 20%. The service cost for the caddy was 3k. I’m sure he tipped him over $600.

 

[RePete]

Phil is as money hungry as anyone! Have you seen what he does for money!

As for for forcing the bloke to work for 3k. That’s double his standard wage. Whether people agree with the tip or not has clearly been shown to split opinion. But I can’t see how paying someone Doubke their wage for their usual job is mugging someone off.

The analogy of a waitress is ridiculous too tbh, you tip a waitress let’s say 10% of the cost of your meal for good service. Let’s say even 20%. The service cost for the caddy was 3k. I’m sure he tipped him over $600.

You mean you tip ten percent of the waitresses hourly wage, instead of percent of the bill, that's weird? Caddies get ten percent of winnings, not ten percent of their salary.

Secondly, who is saying Kuchar can't be money hungry? Phil may be money hungry but at least he is generous. Can Kuch get away with paying him way low (because the guy comes from a poor country where they don't get paid much) sure! What's being debated here is does that make him a class guy or not?

And guess what, if its true, and I suspect we will find out, there will be a lot a lot of people who consider that VERY low class. Cheapskates are not very admired people. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[Papas1982]

You mean you tip ten percent of the waitresses hourly wage, instead of percent of the bill, that's weird? Caddies get ten percent of winnings, not ten percent of their salary.

Secondly, who is saying Kuchar can't be money hungry? Phil may be money hungry but at least he is generous. Can Kuch get away with paying him way low (because the guy comes from a poor country where they don't get paid much) sure! What's being debated here is does that make him a class guy or not?

And guess what, if its true, and I suspect we will find out, there will be a lot a lot of people who consider that VERY low class. Cheapskates are not very admired people. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Sorry but professional caddies get 10% due to the extras involved. The guy at the club would have only earned $1200 if the general public has employed him. Although it was more likely he’d have earned no money that week as the comp was on so general public weren’t using the course. There are loads of examples of club caddies working for pros and getting a base wage.

As to Kuch manipulating a person from a poor country. There are lots of people who I imagine would be happy earning $1200 for a weeks wage, let alone 3k. The guy works at an exclusive club, nit picking grapes!
As to the waitress analogy, No I’d tip 10% of what I’ve paid for a meal. I go there for the meal. That’s the service as such. If I employed a caddy. Then the caddying is the service. So I’d pay on a percentage of that.

As to Mickelson and his generousity, what are you basing that on? His charity work? Kuchar does plenty too. There is nothing to show that Mickelson would have paid more, unless you have an example of it? Or maybe it’s that you like Phil so paint him in a better light?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I would wager that probably the local caddie did get more than the figure being bandied around, but lets also consider that perhaps Mexico isn't the safest place to live if you don't have a lot and suddenly land a largish amount to which everyoneknows about. I suspect he may well end up being turned over by any amount of unpleasant persons.

 

[RePete]

Sorry but professional caddies get 10% due to the extras involved. The guy at the club would have only earned $1200 if the general public has employed him. Although it was more likely he’d have earned no money that week as the comp was on so general public weren’t using the course. There are loads of examples of club caddies working for pros and getting a base wage.

As to Kuch manipulating a person from a poor country. There are lots of people who I imagine would be happy earning $1200 for a weeks wage, let alone 3k. The guy works at an exclusive club, nit picking grapes!
As to the waitress analogy, No I’d tip 10% of what I’ve paid for a meal. I go there for the meal. That’s the service as such. If I employed a caddy. Then the caddying is the service. So I’d pay on a percentage of that.

As to Mickelson and his generousity, what are you basing that on? His charity work? Kuchar does plenty too. There is nothing to show that Mickelson would have paid more, unless you have an example of it? Or maybe it’s that you like Phil so paint him in a better light?

I know for a fact instances of Mickelson's generosity. If you don't well, sorry.

I find people who say, Oh, he should be happy with what he got, to sort of be overlooking what we are talking about, we are not talking about what the caddie should feel (they weren't the one complaining) we are talking about one should feel about Kuchar as a good guy. If its true not much.

It would seem, if its true, the caddie has more class than Kuchar.

 

[RePete]

I suspect the people who defend Kuchar, are probably cheapskates themselves, just a hunch.

I also suspect they are the same kind of people who complain about aliens taking people's jobs, because they will work for less. And yet they also want to pay as little as possible. Hmmm...

Just my suspicion perhaps.

 

[RePete]

I would wager that probably the local caddie did get more than the figure being bandied around, but lets also consider that perhaps Mexico isn't the safest place to live if you don't have a lot and suddenly land a largish amount to which everyoneknows about. I suspect he may well end up being turned over by any amount of unpleasant persons.

Even if he paid him slightly more than 3000, what is the good argument, from Kuchars perspective, for paying him less? Because he can? Professional golfers, frankly, are way way overpaid. I am quite sure the PGA Tour could pay the players a lot lot less, and still people would watch golf. And players would still play. So I think finding an excuse why he could pay him less is kind of besides the point. Kuchar is used to paying the caddie 10%, it hurts him not in the slightest to do so, and people would say, now there's a good dude. Instead, people will say, what a dick.

So it probably wasn't a very good choice in the end.

 

[Wolf]

I suspect the people who defend Kuchar, are probably cheapskates themselves, just a hunch.

I also suspect they are the same kind of people who complain about aliens taking people's jobs, because they will work for less. And yet they also want to pay as little as possible. Hmmm...

Just my suspicion perhaps.

So you're a first time poster on here and you use that opportunity to basically insult people that have different view on this matter to your own..

You know absolutely no facts about this situation only the rumours spread just like the rest of us. You're assuming the Caddy has more class tha Kuch based on no evidence it's equally likely the Caddy is happy with what he was paid which again nobody knows the amount as rightly so the amount agreed and paid remains between the player and Caddy.

Plus the amount of money someone has and spends doesn't equate to a good or bad person does it. Ridiculous to say because Mickelson gives more away he is automatically a better person. Yet Phil has a massive gambling problem so someone could equally say poor role model.

It's a matter of opinion whether someone is good or bad based on something that has no evidence to support it, to say some of us who would. Rather see facts than pure conjecture are equally cheapskate is quite frankly ridiculous.

Just because someone has a lot of money doesn't mean they have to throw it around to be liked.

 

[Jacko_G]

I suspect the people who defend Kuchar, are probably cheapskates themselves, just a hunch.

I also suspect they are the same kind of people who complain about aliens taking people's jobs, because they will work for less. And yet they also want to pay as little as possible. Hmmm...

Just my suspicion perhaps.

You should have a search for the caddying and tipping thread, now that is an embarrassing read. Maybe I should look back too and compare which cheapskates are now defending Kuch. That may be interesting.

 

[RePete]

So you're a first time poster on here and you use that opportunity to basically insult people that have different view on this matter to your own..

You know absolutely no facts about this situation only the rumours spread just like the rest of us. You're assuming the Caddy has more class tha Kuch based on no evidence it's equally likely the Caddy is happy with what he was paid which again nobody knows the amount as rightly so the amount agreed and paid remains between the player and Caddy.

Plus the amount of money someone has and spends doesn't equate to a good or bad person does it. Ridiculous to say because Mickelson gives more away he is automatically a better person. Yet Phil has a massive gambling problem so someone could equally say poor role model.

It's a matter of opinion whether someone is good or bad based on something that has no evidence to support it, to say some of us who would. Rather see facts than pure conjecture are equally cheapskate is quite frankly ridiculous.

Just because someone has a lot of money doesn't mean they have to throw it around to be liked.

I said "if its true..." repeatedly.

I do know what I have heard about Kuchar, nonetheless. And Tiger, from people who know. So, let's consider all evidence.

IF IF!, that's what he did, MOST people would find that to be really low class. A few people won't mind, because its what they would do. If you don't think there is anything wrong with being a cheapskate, why would you say I am insulting anyone? To you its ok being cheap if its one chooses. So its not an insult to you.

 

[RePete]

You should have a search for the caddying and tipping thread, now that is an embarrassing read. Maybe I should look back too and compare which cheapskates are now defending Kuch. That may be interesting.

Yes, I will do just that.

 

[Papas1982]

Edit....

Just seen your pathetic second post re sterotyping us all.

So I'll forget my response and leave you to it.