Juniors in Competitions

[DCB]

Smiffy, That's where the Junior Convenor has to step up and be counted. Initial handicap allocation has to be fair to both the player and the rest of the competitive golfers. Most youngsters will progress and see there handicap drop very quickly, if they play in regular competition. It's getting them to play in regular competition that sometimes the issue.

I've seen lads who have had an initial handicap which is a 'club handicap' ie above 28, who have dropped to low 20s within a matter of weeks because, they get the golf bug and start to live on the course. Next year, their targets have to be low teens or single figures. It's great seeing someone take to the game and make constatnt progression as they improve.

If they play regularly and have a handicap that truly reflects their ability, then no problem, let them play I say.

 

[Imurg]

If they play regularly and have a handicap that truly reflects their ability, then no problem, let them play I say.

And I think that's the crux of this whole debate.
If a Junior really has a handicap that reflects their ability then let 'em play. They're no different to anyone else.

But nobody likes a Bandit - regardless of their age.
If they're improving that quickly - 36-20 in a matter of weeks - or "massaging" the handicap, then some sort of "cap" has to be created to keep the playing field approaching level.
Once they reach 18 they're not going to get better quite so fast so it's more reasonable to allow them entry.

Turing things around, as mentioned above, can adults enter Junior comps, can Women enter Men's and vice versa...?
If age, sex, handicap is no barrier then every comp should be open to all. Every Comp. There would be no need for a Junior section or Mens or Ladies. One club, one comp.
Anyone like the idea..?

 

[Smiffy]

Once they reach 18 they're not going to get better quite so fast so it's more reasonable to allow them entry.

That's the point I was trying to make

 

[DCB]

By their very nature, Juniors are going to want to get better as quickly as possible. The peer presure involved is immense at times. We've got four lads who have dropped from mid 20s to 9-10 within 18 months. They play regularly and in the summer, play in as many Junior Open competitions as they can fit in during the holiday period. Their handicaps are realistic and reflect their current playing ability. each of them has the ability and ambition to get to Cat1. Playing alongside Gents in the Gents Medals has to help these young guys learn how the game is played. It's not just about Knocking the skin off the ball, it's about managing your way round the course properly. Give them the chance to do that and there is potential for the Gents Team in a few years. It benefits the club in many ways.

 

[chris661]

I have no real argument about getting beaten by or juniors winning anything, my gripe is the fact that unless everyone pays the same in subs then there should be seperate comps for the different catagories.

 

[USER1999]

Juniors at my club, who are off single figure handicaps, can play in the comps, for handicap reasons only, and cannot book tee times. They can only take the slot of the 'no shows'. This seems to work, as it doesn't up set any one, and they get the chance for a handicap reduction in a pressure situation ( playing with adults, often strangers, for their handicaps).

 

[Scouser]

they have their own section and should stay there until they are old enough to join the main comps.

So u would rather play me and watch me hack round in 140 then get beat by a kid off say 14?

 

[Smiffy]

So u would rather play me and watch me hack round in 140 then get beat by a kid off say 14?

If we were playing for a tenner, yes

 

[USER1999]

Could be a close game that one.

 

[Smiffy]

Could be a close game that one.

That's why I only said a tenner. If I were a bit more confident it would have been a pony

 

[Scouser]

That's why I only said a tenner. If I were a bit more confident it would have been a pony

Smiffy sorry mate I am not stupid enough to play for money.....but I would happily play you for that horse!

On a serious note the only reason I can see for not playing against a kid (who is able to hold his own) who has the right temperament is because you are worried you will get beat.

 

[bobmac]

I think the "pony" reflects Smiffy's game.
Pony and trap

 

[Hobbit]

So how many of the "they should only play with there own age group," or "only if they pay the same subs" forget that there's a huge difference in distance off the tee for a 25 year old 'v' a 55 year old. Or that many seniors around the country pay less than many of the 25 to 65 year olds.

Whilst I appreciate that everyone might have different views I've not seen a decent, viable, argument that is anything other than fear or short sightedness. That said, maybe some of your suffer clubs with over 500 members and tee times, especially in winter time, are a premium.

 

[Doc]

sorry doc but thats total toilet. surley their level of golf skill should allow them to play equal in comps, not the ammount of membership fees they pay, thats descrimination against age and if nothing else total crap!

If a junior beat me to take a majors comp win, id think fair play to him.,.. not " he doesnbt pay the same fees as me "

It all depends whether you're paying £1300 a year or £100.

I don't know you so am not sure whether you are pulling my chain or not so I'll ignore the tone of your post and agree to disagree on this one.

Again, I am quite happy for juniors to play in the regular comps off a genuine Congu hcp and take my money in the roll up but 7 day full fee paying members board comps should be reserved for those that pay for the priviledge.

Cheers

Steve....

 

[USER1999]

We have around 750 members. Next Sunday there is a stable ford. The sheet went up at 11 last Sunday. It is full. There are no tee times available that will get round in daylight. Even in the summer comps are rammed. There is just no room.

I play quite a lot with some of the kids. They are great golfers, and are great fun to play with. Very competitive. But if they are paying 150 odd a year, and are taking tee times from guys paying £1200, on a Sunday, when they can play all week, that is not right. Guys who work deserve to play on the weekends. Sorry, that is life. If they can't get a tee time they will jump clubs, and take their money with them.

 

[Scouser]

Ok on the subject of fees..... any one on here play any other sports...for me its cricket

Subs adults working one price.
Unemployed another
Students another
Kids another

Match fees same again....

If you are good enough you are good enough.....

 

[USER1999]

Fine for club matches, pants for weekend golf.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think the thing about subs is a bit of a misnomer. Most kids pay cheap fees as juniors even though we know mummy and daddy cough up the cash. There are usually restrictions in place to prevent them playing peak times (weekend mornings, before certain times weekdays etc) and they usually end up getting shunted to some corner of the 19th less they upset the pink gin brigade.

Most at out place are very respectful and behave impeccably and so I always encourage them to come and sit with the main groups and get to know a few people. As I said before I was encouraged as a junior to play in comps although in my day it had to be once you got to 18 handicap. I think that is a pretty reasonable benchmark. Lets not forget some of these courses of the whites will still be a very long test for some as contrary to popular belief not every 14 year old bombs it 300 yards. I've no problem with them playing but it has to be run sensibly, doesn't preclude full members (who after all pay the most and should be able to play when they want) and once they demonstrate an aptitude to compete without making the result a mockery (50+ points)

 

[Scouser]

I think the thing about subs is a bit of a misnomer. Most kids pay cheap fees as juniors even though we know mummy and daddy cough up the cash.

I would say that mum and dad have to pay the subs for obvious reasons and they have to be cheap to compete with the many other activities out their. No sport can afford to price out the young. I just feel that kids should be encouraged. The point has been made that people who pay the most SHOULD play. If thats the case its not a sport ....u simply buy your way.

Are you really better than the rest of the players or did you reach your current position because x many members are not allowed to play?? (Hommer thats not directly at you)

 

[palindromicbob]

Juniors at my club, who are off single figure handicaps, can play in the comps, for handicap reasons only, and cannot book tee times. They can only take the slot of the 'no shows'. This seems to work, as it doesn't up set any one, and they get the chance for a handicap reduction in a pressure situation ( playing with adults, often strangers, for their handicaps).

That seems like a good system.

I have posted here before that one of the best 9 holes I've played at my home track was with an 11 year old. He was great to watch and beat me of the back tees. Taught me a lesson that day. Still wouldn't want to lose a tee time to him though