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Jeremy Corbyn

The conflict in N Ireland is a massively different situation and it's a road of debate that's prob not somewhere we should go

ISIL is a global issue - their actions right now harm innocent people all over the world - western nationalitys are being harmed , Brits have been killed by ISIS

You at the moment want to sit back and do nothing

So I'm asking at what stage do you think force should be used.
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Even though there are undoubtedly cells already spread across the globe, especially in Europe as Paris showed. Bombing "may" have a place but it won't get rid of the threat, won't exclude the need for troops on the ground, and the inevitable casualties that will bring, on an very long term operation, and certainly won#t stop those cells already trained and being trained around the world. I fear that while intelligence may have a handle on some, it won't stop others, eithe as part of an organised strategy or as lone operators to continue to deliver their brand of terrorism
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Fair points, but what is being lost in this tgread is people are focussing on Bomb or don't bomb, no one has said if we bomb Syria IS disappear! that is just one part of the vote in parliament, Personally feel we should get involved
and join in with the allies and we must have a clear strategy, all this talk of Brimstone to me is smoke and mirrors, if we don't join in, the bombing will continue, the targets will be targeted, we happen to have technology that will help immmensley and that's not just the bombs.
It won't stop IS tomorrow, but it might next week/month/year.
Oh and Saudi are involved and are on the IS target list, they've executed more terrorists this year already than the whole of last year and have been fighting IS and AQ in the Yemen for a while now.
 
chippa1909 said:
Are you seriously suggesting that bombing terrorists (a) in Syria is going to prevent terrorists (b) planting bombs in London?
If this is the case, why did we not bomb Ireland when the IRA were bombing London and Birmingham?
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Are you seriously suggesting that NOT bombing in Syria is (a) going to prevent terrorists (b) planting bombs in London?
 
If ever confirmation was needed that political correctness has gone way too far, this debate is it. Here we are in 2015, faced with evil personified and we can't even decide if we should do anything about it at all, wringing our hands wondering if we do nothing, maybe it will all just go away. We have all gone soft. To all the do nothing brigade I can only say get ready to live your life under sharia law, or in a communist state or a nazi dictatorship or any other regime anyone who is prepared to have a go at us fancies. And get ready to tell your kids why you consigned them to such a life. IS is evil. You know it and so do I. How can you stand there and advocate doing nothing?
 
Sweep said:
If ever confirmation was needed that political correctness has gone way too far, this debate is it. Here we are in 2015, faced with evil personified and we can't even decide if we should do anything about it at all, wringing our hands wondering if we do nothing, maybe it will all just go away. We have all gone soft. To all the do nothing brigade I can only say get ready to live your life under sharia law, or in a communist state or a nazi dictatorship or any other regime anyone who is prepared to have a go at us fancies. And get ready to tell your kids why you consigned them to such a life. IS is evil. You know it and so do I. How can you stand there and advocate doing nothing?
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Strong words. I don't necessarily agree with it especially the part about living under sharia law. The thing is while something has to be done, it has to be done properly, cohesively and decisively and that takes co-operation, planning and implementaton
 
Sweep said:
If ever confirmation was needed that political correctness has gone way too far, this debate is it. Here we are in 2015, faced with evil personified and we can't even decide if we should do anything about it at all, wringing our hands wondering if we do nothing, maybe it will all just go away. We have all gone soft. To all the do nothing brigade I can only say get ready to live your life under sharia law, or in a communist state or a nazi dictatorship or any other regime anyone who is prepared to have a go at us fancies. And get ready to tell your kids why you consigned them to such a life. IS is evil. You know it and so do I. How can you stand there and advocate doing nothing?
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I don't think anyone on here has said do nothing
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Strong words. I don't necessarily agree with it especially the part about living under sharia law. The thing is while something has to be done, it has to be done properly, cohesively and decisively and that takes co-operation, planning and implementaton
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Strong words indeed, for a serious situation. Do you not think IS would put us under sharia law if they could?
I absolutely agree that things have to be done properly and with a coalition. But to do nothing is not an option without serious consequences. Those who oppose fighting IS must come up with a viable alternative. As yet I have to hear one.
The West and the Middle East countries have known about this for years and done nothing and this has allowed the rise of IS. We cannot let it go on and I can't believe we are even debating it tbh.
 
Sweep said:
Strong words indeed, for a serious situation. Do you not think IS would put us under sharia law if they could?
I absolutely agree that things have to be done properly and with a coalition. But to do nothing is not an option without serious consequences. Those who oppose fighting IS must come up with a viable alternative. As yet I have to hear one.
The West and the Middle East countries have known about this for years and done nothing and this has allowed the rise of IS. We cannot let it go on and I can't believe we are even debating it tbh.
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Of course they would if they could but the point is they won't. They won't invade and there's not enough already in the UK to take control or would ever be allowed to
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Of course they would if they could but the point is they won't. They won't invade and there's not enough already in the UK to take control or would ever be allowed to
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Oh, I didn't realise. That's OK then.

Sorry Homer, I am being flippant, but what makes you think they won't? When do we take them as a serious threat? When they have their own nation? When they have an Air Force? When they have a nuclear bomb? How many more have to die at their hands before we sit up and take notice? How many more beheadings, crucifixions, burning alive, rapes, tortures?
 
Sweep said:
Oh, I didn't realise. That's OK then.

Sorry Homer, I am being flippant, but what makes you think they won't? When do we take them as a serious threat? When they have their own nation? When they have an Air Force? When they have a nuclear bomb? How many more have to die at their hands before we sit up and take notice? How many more beheadings, crucifixions, burning alive, rapes, tortures?
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Are you talking here, Syria, across Europe or worldwide. As I've said the problem is they are already across the globe so going in with air strikes and perhaps troops in time will perhaps solve the issues in Syria (to a degree, not sure it's a definitive answer) but it won't eradicate the worldwide threat. How do you propose that happens?
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Are you talking here, Syria, across Europe or worldwide. As I've said the problem is they are already across the globe so going in with air strikes and perhaps troops in time will perhaps solve the issues in Syria (to a degree, not sure it's a definitive answer) but it won't eradicate the worldwide threat. How do you propose that happens?
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You are right, it won't eradicate the worldwide threat, but we can and should hit them at their heart while we can. If you take out the command and keep on taking out the command that replaces it, then that is your best chance of IS losing momentum and eventually and hopefully see it whither on the vine. I think it will take coalition, ground troops and a lot of diplomacy, not with IS because they won't talk and indeed never have, but between nations in the coalition. Maybe it may even bring us closer together, which would be great, but tbh I have my doubts.
The alternative is to do nothing, watch them rise, safe in the knowledge that they can hit us on demand and we will do nothing. There will be no retaliation, no price to pay. We can rely on others to save us with no rights to complaint if they don't. We can continue to live in fear. Is that what you want? Is that the life you want for your kids?
i repeat, there is nothing wrong with taking the fight to evil. The usual argument would be whether the force we are fighting really is evil and in such a case there would be a debate. Surely, no-one is suggesting IS is not evil?
 
chippa1909 said:
I'll support further military action when I'm convinced that it won't make things worse.
No one has been able to do that so far.
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Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better, you have to fight for freedom, if you allow IS to grow whilst we debate and debate, they will take over more towns & cities and increase their weaponry and much needed ammunition and take more transport and travel more killing & murdering anyone who doesn't agree with their warped ideals, whereas if we continue to bombard them you stunt all that movement & growth and starve them of all that so, eventually, ground forces can take them on easier and eradicate the world of their cancer!
 
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