D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
What do you mean ?
Jeremy Corbyn
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
What do you mean ?
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
I mean I don't share your confidence in the infallibility of the RAF.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
That's shame then as the facts from their bombing back up my confidence
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
The RAF never make mistakes? Never kill civilians? Never have done, just not recently or never again?
richy
Journeyman Pro
By mistake or incorrect intelligence
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I never said that did I
We might as well close the military then for fear of a human mistake or mis information
Over a year and half of presicion bombing and it's working in Iraq - right now they aren't making mistakes with both the intelligence and the actions
If you don't trust the people to do their job then I can't change that - i do trust them
chippa1909
Head Pro
And I dare say the Syrian father who is surveying the wreckage of his children's school which the US or Russia has just bombed by mistake will say " Oh, that can't be the UK that did this, they don't make mistakes".
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
Labour are now a laughing stock under Corbyn. TBH I thought it was quite funny when they elected him, but now it beggars belief and is actually becoming quite offensive.
He can't decide about Syria, has open arguments with his shadow cabinet, polls his members and THEN decides to give MP's a free vote.
He promotes an admirer of the IRA to the position of Shadow Chancellor.
He stands up The Queen.
He refuses to sing the National Anthem at a memorial service for soldiers who died for him and us.
He brings back Ken Livingstone, who we all thought we had seen the last of, who within minutes of his appointment insults the mentally ill and then says that the 7/7 bombers laid down their lives! Completely forgetting the 52 innocent Londoners whose lives they also laid down - while he was mayor of London.
He blames every new shambles on a "new way of doing politics" that us mere mortals cannot be expected to understand.
It hard to believe that anyone can make such a mess in just 11 weeks.
He can't decide about Syria, has open arguments with his shadow cabinet, polls his members and THEN decides to give MP's a free vote.
He promotes an admirer of the IRA to the position of Shadow Chancellor.
He stands up The Queen.
He refuses to sing the National Anthem at a memorial service for soldiers who died for him and us.
He brings back Ken Livingstone, who we all thought we had seen the last of, who within minutes of his appointment insults the mentally ill and then says that the 7/7 bombers laid down their lives! Completely forgetting the 52 innocent Londoners whose lives they also laid down - while he was mayor of London.
He blames every new shambles on a "new way of doing politics" that us mere mortals cannot be expected to understand.
It hard to believe that anyone can make such a mess in just 11 weeks.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
All I said was that they might target an innocent civilian by mistake. With the best will in the world mistakes happen and you can't choose not to act for fear of those mistakes. However, the real problems begin if and when people start to think they are infallible.
They might be on a good run (as usual you seem well informed) but I presume you do concede that the RAF can make mistakes, have made mistakes and will do so again in the future?
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
Given the IS view on education, how many schools do you think there are left in Raqqa?
Whats the alternative? Leave them under IS rule? Is that what you would want for your kids?
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
The difference is that IS target civilians by no mistake. Them or us. You decide.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So then the question is because mistakes have happened and could happen in the future - do nothing ?
Stop the bombing ?
The RAF and indeed all three services use the best people , the best training , the best equipment to ensure that the risk of a mistake happening is at the lowest possible
Using the best intelligence and equipment like the Brimstone is why innocents aren't being killed in Iraq right now
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Best take the guns of the police then
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
I haven't actually expressed a view on airstrikes but I reject the premise of your question. It's just not that simple.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
It never is when you have to start thinking about killing people and the British Military above all know that. However targeted air strikes on know weaponry and positions/people is required whether we like it or not. Nobody, whether it is the 70,000 + know coalition fighters on the ground or our own boots there is the need before any ground attack can happen. Some of the worst bombing on record had to be carried out by the RAF and its allies to bring an end to WW2. Its not pretty, there are now easy answers but doing nothing is not an option and the world knows that IS and other so called Islamic regimes are openly stating that they not going to stop.
If the question has been "Should the RAF attack IS to neutralise their effect to allow ground forces to attack" nobody would ask the questions that at present are impossible to answer.
But they are. It's shown on the news regularly and you cannot possibly sit behind your keyboard and categorically prove that no innocent party has been killed as part of any RAF bomb strike to date in this. To be honest, it makes not one iota of difference who drops the bombs, innocents will be killed. Whether this "collateral" can be seen as necessary depends on your point of view but please don't say unequicably it isnt happening.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Did you even read the post you quoted?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I most certainly did - hence the part about reducing the risks of making mistakes.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Well that's another question entirely but all I am looking for is an acknowledgement that mistakes happen and a genuine desire to minimise the chances of mistakes.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Mistakes certainly can and do happen but I think the Brimstone missiles are the attempt to minimise the mistakes. I'm not an expert but believe they can pretty much post it through the window of a car and it is only the contents of the car that gets destroyed meaning less risk of civilians in the area being injured or killed by shrapnel.
EDIT - obviously if the intelligence is wrong and you post it through the wrong car window then there is still the risk of mistakes
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