Jeremy Corbyn

[Deleted member 15344]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing Phil, it's your point now he's been the leader a short while, there was a process and he won, it wasn't underhand or fixed, the candidates gave talks and point there points of view over, those eligible or interested voted, to now say the rest of labour Supporters didn't want him is amute point, hence my post about votes in the General election etc, by the way I don't support Corbyn and agree about uniting a Party, my point is, the childish behaviour of MP's not accepting democratically elected people.

I believe you keep missing the point

I asked Doon - does he think Corbyn can unite Labour and does he think the Labour MP's are behind him

You responded by saying "that's not the point" "the majority of Labour Supporters wanted him as leader" and their wishes should be respected

First - you don't know the majority of Labour supporters wanted him as leader - no one has asked them

Secondly - that still has no relevance to the questions I asked

I just wanted to see if Doon felt Corbyn was the person to unite Labour - not discuss how he became leader ?!?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well I didn't get off my backside to do anything about it and, on balance, I'm relatively happy with JC. Especially so when I think who the alternatives are.

Only time will tell if Labour are a dead duck but I think the SNP are about to come a bit unstuck given the bombshell their former policy chief detonated this week so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I believe that the former policy chief said the YES campaigns financial model has come apart due to the collapse in the price of oil. But as I understand it the YES campaign did not base their case for an independent Scotland being financially feasible on oil revenue - they stated all along that there are many countries getting along fine without oil.

Anyway - the way England is going I suspect the next YES campaign won't have to rely too much on financial feasibility built on oil for them to have a strong attraction for many, one key aspect of that being the perceived weakness of Labour in England and the prospect of 'forever Tory'

 

[FairwayDodger]

I believe that the former policy chief said the YES campaigns financial model has come apart due to the collapse in the price of oil. But as I understand it the YES campaign did not base their case for an independent Scotland being financially feasible on oil revenue - they stated all along that there are many countries getting along fine without oil.

Anyway - the way England is going I suspect the next YES campaign won't have to rely too much on financial feasibility built on oil for them to have a strong attraction for many, one key aspect of that being the perceived weakness of Labour in England and the prospect of 'forever Tory'

He said the economic case had always been built on "wishful thinking" and was completely ridiculous now. And that it was "morally repugnant" for the SNP to continue to claim that Scotland can have higher public spending without increasing taxes to pay for it. That's from memory so might not be the exact quotes..... I'll try and find the original article, it's well worth a read. Surprised DFT hasn't already posted it....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I believe that the former policy chief said the YES campaigns financial model has come apart due to the collapse in the price of oil. But as I understand it the YES campaign did not base their case for an independent Scotland being financially feasible on oil revenue - they stated all along that there are many countries getting along fine without oil.

Anyway - the way England is going I suspect the next YES campaign won't have to rely too much on financial feasibility built on oil for them to have a strong attraction for many, one key aspect of that being the perceived weakness of Labour in England and the prospect of 'forever Tory'

If anyone votes Yes without relying on financial feasibility then they will get exactly what they deserve.

And it was clear that the financial future of Scotland as an independent country was heavily weighted towards oil money.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He said the economic case had always been built on "wishful thinking" and was completely ridiculous now. And that it was "morally repugnant" for the SNP to continue to claim that Scotland can have higher public spending without increasing taxes to pay for it. That's from memory so might not be the exact quotes..... I'll try and find the original article, it's well worth a read. Surprised DFT hasn't already posted it....

I'm sure DFT will get round to it when it hits the wings mag but here it is
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/n...s-alex-salmonds-former-policy-chief-alex-bell

 

[Hobbit]

Phil used statistics and those same statisitics apply to Cameron, what is the difference? More Labour people voted for Corbyn than Tories voted for Cameron, does that make Corbyn more popular?

The difference is very clear. Cameron has been good enough to lead the Tories into office twice. Its beginning to look like Corbyn couldn't lead a dog.

I don't doubt for a minute he won the leadership in a fair and square battle within the rules the Labour Party have but even his own cabinet, which he struggled to form because of his unpopularity amongst the Labour leadership, is openly saying he's wrong.

 

[Hobbit]

If anyone votes Yes without relying on financial feasibility then they will get exactly what they deserve.

And it was clear that the financial future of Scotland as an independent country was heavily weighted towards oil money.

The blue print issued by the SNP even quoted the price of a barrel of oil as part of its budget. Seem to remember people on here asking several times about the black hole in that budget but "William Wallace" wouldn't answer.

 

[Fish]

I wonder if the proper Milliband would ever come back to the fold, I think he could get a grip of Labour, although it would take a bit of time to rebuild and lick its wounds, I don't think there is anyone else currently out there that the Conservatives would be concerned about at the helm.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I believe you keep missing the point

I asked Doon - does he think Corbyn can unite Labour and does he think the Labour MP's are behind him

You responded by saying "that's not the point" "the majority of Labour Supporters wanted him as leader" and their wishes should be respected

First - you don't know the majority of Labour supporters wanted him as leader - no one has asked them

Secondly - that still has no relevance to the questions I asked

I just wanted to see if Doon felt Corbyn was the person to unite Labour - not discuss how he became leader ?!?

I get the point you are trying/are making, my point back was that I believe it's a loaded question, Corbyn is not being backed by the MP's and they are not respecting the voters wish, we can run round in circles as to what we see as the labour supporters and who has a say, outwardly it certainly looks like Corbyn cannot unite the party and he won't be able to until he has the support of all MP's

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The difference is very clear. Cameron has been good enough to lead the Tories into office twice. Its beginning to look like Corbyn couldn't lead a dog.

I don't doubt for a minute he won the leadership in a fair and square battle within the rules the Labour Party have but even his own cabinet, which he struggled to form because of his unpopularity amongst the Labour leadership, is openly saying he's wrong.

Cameron is now and that's after 10 years at the helm, Cameron was not the favourite before or after the first round of MP's votes, he was second or third and not the popular choice, once he was elected the Tory party supported him publicly, that's the big difference to how Corbyn is being treated by a lot of labour MP's

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I get the point you are trying/are making, my point back was that I believe it's a loaded question, Corbyn is not being backed by the MP's and they are not respecting the voters wish, we can run round in circles as to what we see as the labour supporters and who has a say, outwardly it certainly looks like Corbyn cannot unite the party and he won't be able to until he has the support of all MP's

So the MP's should blindly go along with what Corbyn wants because he was voted in ?!?
Why they heck would they do that if they don't believe in what he is doing or saying ?

Surely that's the bigger problem - his own MP's have no faith in him , he struggled to get a shadow cabinet because they didn't believe in him.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Long time until the next GE.

All this commotion will no doubt be just a footnote by 2020.

Unless Jeremy Corbyn is a footnote well before 2020 we will almost certainly be subjected to at least another 5 years of a Tory government.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So the MP's should blindly go along with what Corbyn wants because he was voted in ?!?
Why they heck would they do that if they don't believe in what he is doing or saying ?

Surely that's the bigger problem - his own MP's have no faith in him , he struggled to get a shadow cabinet because they didn't believe in him.

Never suggested they blindly follow, but at the moment it's making the whole opposition laughable, leaks from private meetings etc, it's something Corbyn has to get a grip off, but at the same time some of the MP's are acting like children because they didn't get their own way.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Never suggested they blindly follow, but at the moment it's making the whole opposition laughable, leaks from private meetings etc, it's something Corbyn has to get a grip off, but at the same time some of the MP's are acting like children because they didn't get their own way.

I'm really struggling here to see what your point is ?

It is laughable but that's because of the MP's - that's because the people who voted in the leadership campaign voted in someone who is unable to unite the party and is so far behind the times he would struggle in the 60's.

Corbyn won't be able to get a grip because he hasn't got that ability or know how to see that he needs to change.

Labour are at the moment unelectable

 

[Hobbit]

Cameron is now and that's after 10 years at the helm, Cameron was not the favourite before or after the first round of MP's votes, he was second or third and not the popular choice, once he was elected the Tory party supported him publicly, that's the big difference to how Corbyn is being treated by a lot of labour MP's

Think about what Corbyn has done since becoming Labour leader. He's ploughed his own furrow, being his own man and pushing the far left's dogma. Cameron supported party policy, promoted party policy and listened to the party. that is how to unite a party. Not hard to see why so many Labour MP's don't support him, and its understandable why they are not cuddling up to him.

I like many of the guy's social policies, and I think he speaks really well in that area. But his foriegn policy is way too far left to find traction with the electorate or his own party.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I'm sure DFT will get round to it when it hits the wings mag but here it is
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/n...s-alex-salmonds-former-policy-chief-alex-bell

He 'left his post' in July 2013 before the white paper was released.

I read his blog a few days ago.........agree with some of his points, disagree with others.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

He 'left his post' in July 2013 before the white paper was released.

I read his blog a few days ago.........agree with some of his points, disagree with others.

So did he have something to do with the white paper or not ?

It was released in November and I'm guessing they took a couple of years to publish it so he wasn't around for the last couple of months

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Never suggested they blindly follow, but at the moment it's making the whole opposition laughable, leaks from private meetings etc, it's something Corbyn has to get a grip off, but at the same time some of the MP's are acting like children because they didn't get their own way.

Of course, a bigger issue is that any government needs an articulate and robust opposition to keep it focussed and every so often kept in check. I don't think under Corbyn, Labour are capable of offering this. Not saying they won't be but I just don't see them doing so with Corbyn at the helm

 

[Hobbit]

Of course, a bigger issue is that any government needs an articulate and robust opposition to keep it focussed and every so often kept in check. I don't think under Corbyn, Labour are capable of offering this. Not saying they won't be but I just don't see them doing so with Corbyn at the helm

I'd go further and add that whilst the focus is on Corbyn's failings it isn't on whatever strides Labour are making to become credible. When he is as one with the party... but will that happen?

 

[Billythefish]

Unless Jeremy Corbyn is a footnote well before 2020 we will almost certainly be subjected to at least another 5 years of a Tory government.

Happy days then..