Ive had it with lessons and pros!

[caslad81]

When you went for the lessons what did you ask for?

It sound's like you were after a little coaching to squeeze something more from the swing you had rather than lessons on how to hit the ball in the most efficient way.

Now I understand completely that there is no-one that executes the 'perfect' golf swing but amateurs can always be taught ways to get a little closer to it.

It's taken me 3 years to get from hitting it straight and all over the place, to straight and reasonably accurate because of about 10 little changes to what I was doing naturally.

I'd say you need to decide what you want from your golf and your lessons. If you are hitting it straight and you're happy with that why did you have the lessons?

The reason I went for lessons was originally a few lessons to help me stay on the right track and squeeze a little more out of my game. This has now turned into a boat load of lessons with massive changes and a swing that I have tried throwing money at that has got worse.

 

[caslad81]

Sounds to me like you have two issues. Communication and attitude.

When you go to see a pro, it's because you want to improve right? I can't see the point going otherwise. The thing is, when you're average pro sees you swinging like Matt Kuchar, what do you expect him to do. Any pro worth his money will see your faults and tell you how to fix them - it is just about impossible to expect them to teach you how to improve your unique natural swing. It goes against everything they have trained to do.

So they will explain to you the issues and help you to work o them. For that to work you need to be 100% comitted and if I'm honest, it doesn't sound like you are. Can you honestly say, hand on heart that during every practice session and every round you have stuck religiously to what you have been taught? From what I've read, and the fact that a year later your original swing is still your natural one that you haven't been true to either yourself or your pro.

If you weren't happy aftera couple of months you should have said something. Even if you spend a whole lesson discussing it which I did last year. You both need to understand the goal, if he's teaching you one thing and your mind is set on another it will never work.

A year later my swing is not my natural swing, that is my problem!!!! I have spoke to the pro's at length about my concerns and get told that I will never improve unless I swing like they tell me, which I have and have ended up with this problem.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hookedgolf,

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. I am not looking for a quick fix hence why I have had a lesson a fortnight for just about a year, I expected to get worse before I got better what I am saying is that I was hitting the ball well to start off with, so why would a pro want to completely build my swing from the ground up when I am not happy swinging on 2 planes and playing fairly well swinging on one? And don’t you think I should have seen some improvement in the past year with nearly 30 hours of teaching under my belt (that aint no quick fix) the point is I listened to the pro and followed there instructions and got worse going from 12.3 back to 18 where I am now. I don’t discount that they know what they are talking about but the one plane swing is a valid swing pattern used by pros and amateurs alike so why if somebody naturally swings that way not work with it?

Were the pros really trying to teach you to swing in two planes? Unless I'm misunderstanding something about this plane lark it just sounds wrong? My pro last year always advocated keeping it on one plane, that's the thing I still have trouble with. I'm surprised 3 different pros would try to get you swing on two.

 

[Swinger]

It is better to have a plain swing

 

[caslad81]

Hookedgolf,

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. I am not looking for a quick fix hence why I have had a lesson a fortnight for just about a year, I expected to get worse before I got better what I am saying is that I was hitting the ball well to start off with, so why would a pro want to completely build my swing from the ground up when I am not happy swinging on 2 planes and playing fairly well swinging on one? And don’t you think I should have seen some improvement in the past year with nearly 30 hours of teaching under my belt (that aint no quick fix) the point is I listened to the pro and followed there instructions and got worse going from 12.3 back to 18 where I am now. I don’t discount that they know what they are talking about but the one plane swing is a valid swing pattern used by pros and amateurs alike so why if somebody naturally swings that way not work with it?

Were the pros really trying to teach you to swing in two planes? Unless I'm misunderstanding something about this plane lark it just sounds wrong? My pro last year always advocated keeping it on one plane, that's the thing I still have trouble with. I'm surprised 3 different pros would try to get you swing on two.

A one plane swing is when the left arm is on the same plane as the shoulders, I am not talking about the shaft plane if thats what you mean. Im not teaching you to suck eggs, just making sure we are talking about the same thing.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Sounds to me like you have two issues. Communication and attitude.

When you go to see a pro, it's because you want to improve right? I can't see the point going otherwise. The thing is, when you're average pro sees you swinging like Matt Kuchar, what do you expect him to do. Any pro worth his money will see your faults and tell you how to fix them - it is just about impossible to expect them to teach you how to improve your unique natural swing. It goes against everything they have trained to do.

So they will explain to you the issues and help you to work o them. For that to work you need to be 100% comitted and if I'm honest, it doesn't sound like you are. Can you honestly say, hand on heart that during every practice session and every round you have stuck religiously to what you have been taught? From what I've read, and the fact that a year later your original swing is still your natural one that you haven't been true to either yourself or your pro.

If you weren't happy aftera couple of months you should have said something. Even if you spend a whole lesson discussing it which I did last year. You both need to understand the goal, if he's teaching you one thing and your mind is set on another it will never work.

A year later my swing is not my natural swing, that is my problem!!!! I have spoke to the pro's at length about my concerns and get told that I will never improve unless I swing like they tell me, which I have and have ended up with this problem.

But can you honestly say, hand on heart you have been 100% comitted to it? You haven't once played and swung the old way, even just to see?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hookedgolf,

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. I am not looking for a quick fix hence why I have had a lesson a fortnight for just about a year, I expected to get worse before I got better what I am saying is that I was hitting the ball well to start off with, so why would a pro want to completely build my swing from the ground up when I am not happy swinging on 2 planes and playing fairly well swinging on one? And don’t you think I should have seen some improvement in the past year with nearly 30 hours of teaching under my belt (that aint no quick fix) the point is I listened to the pro and followed there instructions and got worse going from 12.3 back to 18 where I am now. I don’t discount that they know what they are talking about but the one plane swing is a valid swing pattern used by pros and amateurs alike so why if somebody naturally swings that way not work with it?

Were the pros really trying to teach you to swing in two planes? Unless I'm misunderstanding something about this plane lark it just sounds wrong? My pro last year always advocated keeping it on one plane, that's the thing I still have trouble with. I'm surprised 3 different pros would try to get you swing on two.

A one plane swing is when the left arm is on the same plane as the shoulders, I am not talking about the shaft plane if thats what you mean. Im not teaching you to suck eggs, just making sure we are talking about the same thing.

Ok, gonna have to look this up to make sure we are

 

[caslad81]

Sounds to me like you have two issues. Communication and attitude.

When you go to see a pro, it's because you want to improve right? I can't see the point going otherwise. The thing is, when you're average pro sees you swinging like Matt Kuchar, what do you expect him to do. Any pro worth his money will see your faults and tell you how to fix them - it is just about impossible to expect them to teach you how to improve your unique natural swing. It goes against everything they have trained to do.

So they will explain to you the issues and help you to work o them. For that to work you need to be 100% comitted and if I'm honest, it doesn't sound like you are. Can you honestly say, hand on heart that during every practice session and every round you have stuck religiously to what you have been taught? From what I've read, and the fact that a year later your original swing is still your natural one that you haven't been true to either yourself or your pro.

If you weren't happy aftera couple of months you should have said something. Even if you spend a whole lesson discussing it which I did last year. You both need to understand the goal, if he's teaching you one thing and your mind is set on another it will never work.

A year later my swing is not my natural swing, that is my problem!!!! I have spoke to the pro's at length about my concerns and get told that I will never improve unless I swing like they tell me, which I have and have ended up with this problem.

But can you honestly say, hand on heart you have been 100% comitted to it? You haven't once played and swung the old way, even just to see?

No I cant, but I did put a good six months into it before I started thinking this isn’t right. Some people have trouble with the concept of getting the hands above the shoulder and rerouting the club on to a shallower plane while thrusting the hips and keeping the shoulders back, people like me! I find it incredibly hard to time this type of swing, hence my problem!

To be honest it took me a while to realise the pro was changing me to a two plane swing as he was getting me to do things and not really explaining why as I hadnt filmed myself and I had just taken the game up and feel vs what is really happening can be 2 totally different things so I just went along with it.

 

[vig]

Where have you been for lessons ?

 

[G_Mulligan]

My point is do the majority of golf pros just teach a generic style of swing (Maybe one for Bob to answer?) as the 3 I have tried have taught 2 plane fundamentals for a one plane swing, no wonder the average handicap hasn’t changed in the last 3 decades, surely a PGA Pro should be proficient with students of both styles of play. Anyway if anyone knows of anyone in West Yorkshire area that specialises in the one plane swing please let me know!

Thanks

When I went with my coach he explained the difference between a 1 & 2 plane swing he went through the pro's and con's for both. He pretty much gave me the option of which route I would like to go down and can teach either method. He is based in West Yorkshire so I will send you a pm with his details and you can call him for a chat if you want.

 

[JustOne]

Sounds like you should be looking into the fundamentals of stack and tilt.

Most pros teach the two-plane swing. You'll not find many who know a rats arse about a one-plane swing.

What is it that you are actually trying to fix? Distance/control/consistency or all 3?

 

[rossef2]

It's not surprising your handicap has went up, you've had to many teachers and to many lessons.

Unless your working on your game 24/7 how can you bed in changes from a lesson every two weeks? Changing Pro's will also take time as they try and get their point across.

 

[richart]

You have been playing a year and got a handicap down to 12.3 and back upto 18...WOW?!

What was your starting handicap?

Im playing to 18, my official handicap is 13.6 and I started with 15, why would that confuse you??

Why did you start with a handicap of 15, you should have started with 28. If you have only been playing a year and having lessons from the beginning how did you get a flat swing. Most people swing how they are taught from the beginning. If you were a total beginner 13.6 in one year sounds good to me, but i may be missing something in your rather large opening paragraph.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Where were you having lessons and what made you choose the orginal pro?

As someone regularly lambasted on here for the number of lessons and perceived lack of results I can confirm that it can take time. I have a quirky swing, but the pro I am seeing hasn't tried too much to change all of what I do but to get what I have working better. He has got me trying to start the downswing with the hips and to turn them laterally rather than slide (similar to one of the points in your OP). Basically what I'm saying is that I've been working on changes over this winter and back to this time last year with this guy and only now am I starting to play with an understanding and belief in what I'm doing.

If the first pro didn't do it for you, how did you pick the second and third and how much time did you give them. It seems to me you have a fixed idea in your head and just because their concept of how to swing doesn't match yours you're not interested in following their lead, working on the drills etc but are swapping from pro to pro looking for someone to confirm your way is right. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's how some of the posts read.

Why not find one pro and sit down with him before you book anything. Maybe take a video of your swing along to show him your one plane technique and ask him if he thinks that will be good enough to take you to the next level you want to achieve. If not ask why, what needs changing and try and fix some goals and dates in place. The thing with lessons is that you have to accept taking two or even three steps back in order to take bigger steps going forward with a stronger and more resilient swing

 

[EZprophet]

Caslad81,

I have to ask, if you felt like as you say that you were "swinging it fairly well on one (plane)" then why would you go to a pro in the first place?

I'm guessing you were hoping that each pro would give you one or two changes that you needed to make to turn your current swing from a 12 handicap swing to a 6 handicap swing or whatever, but unfortunately thats not really how it works.

Each pro you have been to clearly thinks that there is no way you can improve with your current swing, and need to make some drastic changed if you are to improve your ball striking and/or consistency.

I believe that the reason why 90% of people who don't imrpove from lessons don't improve is down to their attitude. Mainly from stubborness towards change and not trusting their coach.

It is possible that all three coaches have it completely wrong, as their are some very poor teachers out there who just go through the motions, but I'd say its more likely that you just dont have as full and understanding of your own swing as you think you do.

My advice would be to check out a couple of more coaches to see if you can find one who understands your "ideas" on your swing, and then when you don't find one, find a coach with some good credentials, trust what he says and stick with it.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I believe that the reason why 90% of people who don't imrpove from lessons don't improve is down to their attitude. Mainly from stubborness towards change and not trusting their coach.

^
^
^
What he said.

 

[Tiger]

I've been taking a lesson a month for a year and a half. I was new to golf and wanted to build as repeatable a swing as possible. It's only now that things are starting to work. I did this because of my brothers advice. He got down to 15/16 and couldn't get down any lower because of inconsistencies in his ball striking. He is taking lessons now and finding it much harder to unlearn his old habits. A lesson a month gives me time to practice each change.

I guess what I'm saying is that I do trust my current pro and I am being patient. There have been times when I've got really frustrated. If I get no handicap movement by the summer I'll have to rethink my approach.

I don't understand all this one plane/two plane stuff. What I will say is that the key is trust. If you don't have that you can't benefit. I hope you resolve your issues and your handicap comes back down.

 

[coolhand]

I've faced exactly the same issue as the OP, £700 down the drain and no significant progress despite weekly visits to the range between bi-weekly lessons. There was always enough progress to stop me questioning anything but certainly no breakthrough. I only looked elsewhere because of other circumstances.

It wasn't till the new pro started tweaking things in the opposite direction with rapid success after only two lessons that I realised I had been pushed down the wrong path. A chance comment towards the end of my 2nd lesson ended up after some research with the discovery of Jim Hardy's theories and a reason why.

Most pro's still teach the two-plane swing - I assume because that's what they've been taught to teach - despite the increasing realisation at Tour level that there are 2 fundamental (mutually exclusive) types of swing.

Lesson learnt - as others have said tell your pro what you want and how you want to get there.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It wasn't till the new pro started tweaking things in the opposite direction with rapid success after only two lessons that I realised I had been pushed down the wrong path.

Who did you have and where are you going now?

 

[coolhand]

Had - N1 Golf at Nevada Bob's in the City (My Pro's not thier anymore so no reflection on the current ones)

Now - Teaching Pro at Hazelwood Golf Centre