Itv leaders debate.

[bluewolf]

from what I saw Blue (didnt see it all) he mentioned this as it was brought up, all he mentioned was the fact that 60% of people identified with HIV in the UK and receiving up to £25000 PA from the UK govt have come from overseas. He said we should be looking after our own people first and this could save nearly £2Billion PA

Makes more sense. Cheers Colin.

I wonder how true that stat is? And whether he would apply the same policy to all serious conditions?

He certainly seems to know how to play to his target audience doesn't he? He is an excellent "politician". If only he didn't represent the insidious creep of fascism (in my opinion of course)...

 

[ColchesterFC]

This may give the Farage haters some pause for thought
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/04/02/leaders-debate/

I didn't watch any of the debate so this comment is purely based on the link from SH.

Don't understand how Sturgeon could be said to have performed best overall when you look at the ratings for each question. As much as it pains me to say, surely Milliband performed best as he was rated 1st 1st 2nd and 3rd for the 4 questions.

Cameron - 1, 2, T2, 3
Farage - 4, 4, 1, 5
Sturgeon - 3, 3, 2, T2
Clegg - 5, 5, 7, 4

Based on how each question was rated in terms of who was most impressive if you swap Farage and Sturgeon surely that should be the correct order.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Think this thread proves that people will always see what they want to see and the vast majority of viewers have so many prejudices and preconceptions that nothing that was said would change that.

In fact all it does is harden them so some of us will think Farage is an even bigger nasty racist tosser and others will believe even more now that he is a breath of fresh air and is exactly what this country needs. And let's face it, none of us are going to change our minds. And the same applies to the other party leaders.

Good post from the No2 voice of logical reason.:lol:

Why are a couple of posters on here so concerned with Nicola's shoes and hair.......seems a bit 'perverted' to me.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Farage is an unpleasant bigot. Anyone who votes for him is probably one too.

I'd possibly stop a bit short of that but there is no doubt that anyone voting UKIP is, at the very least, prepared to turn a blind eye to their racism, sexism and homophobia. I'd view any UKIP voter with a degree of suspicion.

 

[Dellboy]

Well that was two hours of my life I will never get back.

Why did they have 7 people, only 2 have the chance of being PM, the fish lady should have not been on as no one in England can vote for her, Welsh lady was next to useless, and once again will only get votes in Wales, the Ozzie, well best take herself and her crackpot ideas back down under.

Nick didn't look like he even wanted to be there, Farage, one trick pony (mind you I do agree with him) Ed is a leader who his own party doesn't want and all he wants to do is send the country back into massive debt, and then Cameron, just stood back from the bun fight and let the others go for each it, would have liked him to atack the others more.

Go Dave Go :thup:

 

[Hobbit]

Just an off the cuff unrefined thought/question, and apologies if it comes across a bit clumsy.

We're about to go through a UK general election, and there were two parties in last night's debate who want a raft of things for their respective countries, which appear to be at the expense of people in the other countries in the UK.

Are they discriminating against the rest of the UK?

 

[Tiger]

Been unable to sleep tonight as every time I close my eyes I see Ed Milliband staring at me through a tv!

This may give the Farage haters some pause for thought
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/04/02/leaders-debate/

The media in the UK - notably the right wing press - has stirred up concern on immigration. There are many other societal issues that are causing problems in this country like aspiration and work willingness (the fact that many EU nationals are willing to work for a lower wage). However people need to understand that the benefits bill is mainly being drained by people living longer thereby swelling the pensions pot.

As much as I hate to say it UKIP are brilliantly playing on people's fears and the easy explanation that fixing immigration is the panacea for all the UKs ills. This is borne out by the votes in SH link where he only scores strongly on immigration. Unfortunately, it's much more complex than that but a significant proportion of the electorate are unaware of the more complex issues.

The problem is compounded by a weak Labour party and leader and the fact that most Labour voters would never vote Tory. The Lib Dems have suffered by their weak position in the coalition and I fear that
a) a large number of the 'usual' electorate won't vote
b) Farage will mobilise parts of the electorate that might not normally vote
c) We'll end up with a dysfunctional parliament as it will need a multi party coalition

For the first time in my life I'm glad we have FPTP as I dread to think what kind of parliament it would be with any form PR.

The only thing that may save the Tories is that they continue to outplay everyone on the economy and that's the biggest political issue. From my perspective I've always been a Labour supporter but left the party when we appointed Ed over David. The Unions swayed the vote thinking they could much more easily control Ed. If only David had won I think politics would be a very different place now Come election day I have no idea what I'm going to do...

 

[Tiger]

Just an off the cuff unrefined thought/question, and apologies if it comes across a bit clumsy.

We're about to go through a UK general election, and there were two parties in last night's debate who want a raft of things for their respective countries, which appear to be at the expense of people in the other countries in the UK.

Are they discriminating against the rest of the UK?

No they are representing the interests of their population which is fine in a devolved political environment Sturgeon was brilliant

 

[FairwayDodger]

I didn't see the debate myself but I am told that Sturgeon played the old SNP trick of berating the UK politicians over issues that are actually devolved.

 

[Ethan]

The media in the UK - notably the right wing press - has stirred up concern on immigration. There are many other societal issues that are causing problems in this country like aspiration and work willingness (the fact that many EU nationals are willing to work for a lower wage). However people need to understand that the benefits bill is mainly being drained by people living longer thereby swelling the pensions pot.

As much as I hate to say it UKIP are brilliantly playing on people's fears and the easy explanation that fixing immigration is the panacea for all the UKs ills. This is borne out by the votes in SH link where he only scores strongly on immigration. Unfortunately, it's much more complex than that but a significant proportion of the electorate are unaware of the more complex issues.

The problem is compounded by a weak Labour party and leader and the fact that most Labour voters would never vote Tory. The Lib Dems have suffered by their weak position in the coalition and I fear that
a) a large number of the 'usual' electorate won't vote
b) Farage will mobilise parts of the electorate that might not normally vote
c) We'll end up with a dysfunctional parliament as it will need a multi party coalition

For the first time in my life I'm glad we have FPTP as I dread to think what kind of parliament it would be with any form PR.

The only thing that may save the Tories is that they continue to outplay everyone on the economy and that's the biggest political issue. From my perspective I've always been a Labour supporter but left the party when we appointed Ed over David. The Unions swayed the vote thinking they could much more easily control Ed. If only David had won I think politics would be a very different place now Come election day I have no idea what I'm going to do...

Farage is a very capable and skilled politician. He has brought UKIP very far.

He manages to project an everyman image despite being a multi-millionaire former public school commodity trader.

He also knows that fear mongering and appealing to prejudice works pretty well in politics, so he is ringing that bell all the time. He further knows that his core vote is from people who dislike the conventional politicians (although many of the rest of us do too), and he therefore goads them to attack him and shore up his support.

Bizarrely, the snap are kinda doing some of the same, knowing that the attacks Labour and the Tories make on them are perceived by some as anti-Scottish rather than anti-SNP so drives more votes to the SNP.

Even Nick Clegg is trying some of that by getting Cameron to have a go at him thus showing the separation between the two.

And in each case, Cameron and Moribund are falling for it.

 

[c1973]

Just an off the cuff unrefined thought/question, and apologies if it comes across a bit clumsy.

We're about to go through a UK general election, and there were two parties in last night's debate who want a raft of things for their respective countries, which appear to be at the expense of people in the other countries in the UK.

Are they discriminating against the rest of the UK?

Probably seems that way to those possibly affected, but, as much as I can't stand the snp and think their viewpoint is completely wrong, they'll be viewing it as readressing the balance, not discriminating.

Someone is always going to benefit at someone else's expense when the cash gets shared.



Was the gigantic £7 Billion hole in the snp full fiscal autonomy plans mentioned or did Lego heid dodge that bullet again? Any mention of why we have food banks up here when they've been running 'a fairer' country for 7 years or why our GDP % is lower than the UK?

 

[Tiger]

Farage is a very capable and skilled politician. He has brought UKIP very far.

He manages to project an everyman image despite being a multi-millionaire former public school commodity trader.

He also knows that fear mongering and appealing to prejudice works pretty well in politics, so he is ringing that bell all the time. He further knows that his core vote is from people who dislike the conventional politicians (although many of the rest of us do too), and he therefore goads them to attack him and shore up his support.

Bizarrely, the snap are kinda doing some of the same, knowing that the attacks Labour and the Tories make on them are perceived by some as anti-Scottish rather than anti-SNP so drives more votes to the SNP.

Even Nick Clegg is trying some of that by getting Cameron to have a go at him thus showing the separation between the two.

And in each case, Cameron and Moribund are falling for it.

Very true :thup: though I think the ship has sailed for Clegg irrespective of what he does now

and Moribund... must remember that one I've often gone for Millibland. I've met him a few times and that certainly sums him up...

 

[SocketRocket]

Interesting link. According to that, on immigration;

The Conservatives have promised to cut net immigration to tens of thousands.

Labour state that immigration needs to be properly controlled and managed.

For the LibDems, Nick Clegg is "a believer in the benefits of well managed immigration".

UKIP want an Aussie styled points system.

Based on that, can someone explain the difference between UKIP and the 3 main parties, apart from the obvious difference that Farage is completely open about his party's views, unlike some others (yes, you Mr. Clegg).

One difference is that people like to label him a Racist because he wants to control immigrant numbers. I consider this to be a very bigoted attitude by some..

 

[SocketRocket]

I'd possibly stop a bit short of that but there is no doubt that anyone voting UKIP is, at the very least, prepared to turn a blind eye to their racism, sexism and homophobia. I'd view any UKIP voter with a degree of suspicion.

You appear to be a inverted example of your own prejudices !

 

[FairwayDodger]

You appear to be a inverted example of your own prejudices !

Not sure what you mean. I've merely seen the racist, sexist and homophobic quotes attributed to UKIP candidates and officials and decided that I could never vote for them. Anyone who does is, at best, turning a blind eye to these. That seems a matter of fact rather than any prejudice on my part.

 

[User20205]

You appear to be a inverted example of your own prejudices !

Ignore immigration for a second, as I believe everyone believes that needs to be addressed in some manner.

Explain to me ukips (and your) views on gay marriage?

 

[Hacker Khan]

The media in the UK - notably the right wing press - has stirred up concern on immigration. There are many other societal issues that are causing problems in this country like aspiration and work willingness (the fact that many EU nationals are willing to work for a lower wage). However people need to understand that the benefits bill is mainly being drained by people living longer thereby swelling the pensions pot.

As much as I hate to say it UKIP are brilliantly playing on people's fears and the easy explanation that fixing immigration is the panacea for all the UKs ills. This is borne out by the votes in SH link where he only scores strongly on immigration. Unfortunately, it's much more complex than that but a significant proportion of the electorate are unaware of the more complex issues.

The problem is compounded by a weak Labour party and leader and the fact that most Labour voters would never vote Tory. The Lib Dems have suffered by their weak position in the coalition and I fear that
a) a large number of the 'usual' electorate won't vote
b) Farage will mobilise parts of the electorate that might not normally vote
c) We'll end up with a dysfunctional parliament as it will need a multi party coalition

For the first time in my life I'm glad we have FPTP as I dread to think what kind of parliament it would be with any form PR.

The only thing that may save the Tories is that they continue to outplay everyone on the economy and that's the biggest political issue. From my perspective I've always been a Labour supporter but left the party when we appointed Ed over David. The Unions swayed the vote thinking they could much more easily control Ed. If only David had won I think politics would be a very different place now Come election day I have no idea what I'm going to do...

Fine post that sir.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Ignore immigration for a second, as I believe everyone believes that needs to be addressed in some manner.

Explain to me ukips (and your) views on gay marriage?

You do realise you are asking a kipper to ignore immigration . It ain't going to happen as they will self combust if they try.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ignore immigration for a second, as I believe everyone believes that needs to be addressed in some manner.

Explain to me ukips (and your) views on gay marriage?

I am not a UKIP spokesman so have no need to speak for them. You are however free to check out their view yourself.

My own views are personal and I have no wish to discuss them with you. Why do you ask?

 

[SocketRocket]

You do realise you are asking a kipper to ignore immigration . It ain't going to happen as they will self combust if they try.

Rather a childish comment Sir. I will have different views to you but I will not try to discredit yours by insults.