'It Was Not Like That In My Day'

[HomerJSimpson]

We get round in three ball medal rounds in under four hours and in four ball social games in the same time so I don't feel there is perhaps as big a problem at times as is made out. Played a pay and play yesterday and even with two novices and a society behind us we were round in just over four hours and that included a lot of searching and we were still a hole and a half ahead of the group behind.

A lot of it comes from TV coverage and many see marking from next to the hole as the norm and so do it. Just get up there providing you aren't on anyone's line and knock it in. At the moment, with rock hard greens I'd argue you could get away with being on the line and make no difference but of course that's not good etiquette.

 

[fundy]

We get round in three ball medal rounds in under four hours and in four ball social games in the same time so I don't feel there is perhaps as big a problem at times as is made out. Played a pay and play yesterday and even with two novices and a society behind us we were round in just over four hours and that included a lot of searching and we were still a hole and a half ahead of the group behind.

A lot of it comes from TV coverage and many see marking from next to the hole as the norm and so do it. Just get up there providing you aren't on anyone's line and knock it in. At the moment, with rock hard greens I'd argue you could get away with being on the line and make no difference but of course that's not good etiquette.

so as long as youre not seeing it its not happening?

for us today, 5hrs 5 mins for a comp off the yellows, utterly attrocious, lost the will to live out there

 

[Imurg]

so as long as youre not seeing it its not happening?

for us today, 5hrs 5 mins for a comp off the yellows, utterly attrocious, lost the will to live out there

You do seem to suffer up there Steve..most times I've played there its been slow
Is it numbers? Or just idiots..?
Or both?

 

[fundy]

You do seem to suffer up there Steve..most times I've played there its been slow
Is it numbers? Or just idiots..?
Or both?

Its getting worse every week it seems Ian, the 80ish new members weve had since Mentmore closed not helped!. Today was what happens when we have a comp with over 100 entrants off both 1 and 10, played in 4 balls with mixed groups.

Used to be a quiet course not too many people knew about, getting far too popular for its own good (and the members sanity)

 

[Hobbit]

Its getting worse every week it seems Ian, the 80ish new members weve had since Mentmore closed not helped!. Today was what happens when we have a comp with over 100 entrants off both 1 and 10, played in 4 balls with mixed groups.

Used to be a quiet course not too many people knew about, getting far too popular for its own good (and the members sanity)

Those sorts of numbers might well mean balloting out for winter comps/leagues - not good.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

so as long as youre not seeing it its not happening?

for us today, 5hrs 5 mins for a comp off the yellows, utterly attrocious, lost the will to live out there

What do you mean? Our members in comps and those in our roll up (usually anything from 15-30 on a Sunday) get round in four hours or less. What's to see? We play at a decent pace and four hours is not a sprint or feeling like you've been out there forever. I'd say it's optimum time for a comp or social fourball on a busy weekend course. Not entirely sure what your saying?

 

[fundy]

We get round in three ball medal rounds in under four hours and in four ball social games in the same time so I don't feel there is perhaps as big a problem at times as is made out. Played a pay and play yesterday and even with two novices and a society behind us we were round in just over four hours and that included a lot of searching and we were still a hole and a half ahead of the group behind.

A lot of it comes from TV coverage and many see marking from next to the hole as the norm and so do it. Just get up there providing you aren't on anyone's line and knock it in. At the moment, with rock hard greens I'd argue you could get away with being on the line and make no difference but of course that's not good etiquette.

Seems pretty clear that you dont think the problem of slow play really exists, where for some of us its a regular occurence and bug bear

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Seems pretty clear that you dont think the problem of slow play really exists, where for some of us its a regular occurence and bug bear

I didn't say that and I've been out there for five hours or more. H4H at West Hill seemed a long day and society days in particular can also be very slow. I'm merely pointing out that at my course, the members seem to play at a decent pace particularly in competitions.
We have a Saturday roll up that goes out behind a group that are very, very slow and who refuse to let others through. It has been brought up with them and with the club who seem to think that as it's social golf there isn't a need to intervene. That means we can be slower (around 4 and a quarter - 4 and a half on bad days) so we're not immune but when the club don't want to get involved what can you do?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

We have a Saturday roll up that goes out behind a group that are very, very slow and who refuse to let others through. It has been brought up with them and with the club who seem to think that as it's social golf there isn't a need to intervene. That means we can be slower (around 4 and a quarter - 4 and a half on bad days) so we're not immune but when the club don't want to get involved what can you do?

Go out before them??

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Go out before them??

They are the first group out at 7.00am. Can't get out before them as they are usually milling around from 6.30 or so waiting to go out and to be honest not many of the roll up would want to get there even earlier. The issue is more their refusal to ever let anyone through or recognise their pace of play sets the tone for the day

 

[Hacker Khan]

i started playing when i was 6 (cut down putter ) if you can call it playing at that age,it was at a time when golf wasn't played by the working man and was the domain of the middle classes,both lower and upper thus a lot fewer people on the course,there were a lot less courses and the wait to get in was a long one.The rises in popularity of tv coverage,people having more free time and the money to spend started the rise in courses being built and the sight of workmen's vans on club car parks,the courses became fuller etiquette went down a notch games became longer,more courses built without any traditions,people new to the game started playing,again not knowing the rules of etiquette,clubs closed down those members move to another club that is run for profit by a corporation so have to many members,slower rounds of golf,i have spoken to people on courses and asked to play through,and been told "ive paid f-in £40 to play here pal do one " and i dont think that attitude is uncommon,my question would be has golf become the preserve of those who think they can do what they like after they have paid their green fees ?

No.

 

[shortstuff]

In the 'old days', courses were less busy. Recently there have been a lot of course closures, so the remaining courses have got busier. Also those players could keep the ball in play. Today, driver and ball technology means that any hacker can hit the ball a long way into rubbish. In my experience it's the searching for balls from wayward drives that holds up play the most. Leaving bags in the wrong place etc all add to the problem. On a busy week-end you get back-ups so you can't even play through.

 

[6inchcup]

No.

why NO,do you think players now who have never held a club before but see it on tv and fancy a game will be versed in the tradition and etiquette of the game,who is going to teach the newbies how they should conduct themselves on and off the course,how many on these pages are trying to change dress codes to encourage the wearing of jeans on the course,WHY !!! my take on it would be if you dont like the traditions and rules set down DONT play or join a club that has the rules you dont like.

 

[BubbaP]

Sure I recall plenty of moaning about 4.5 to 5 hour medal rounds in late 80s early 90s.will caveat was in the "golf boom" and the area was short on courses. Don't have first hand experience as was not playing medals, but social golf groups were typically made up to 4 balls by pro due to demand

 

[Hacker Khan]

why NO,do you think players now who have never held a club before but see it on tv and fancy a game will be versed in the tradition and etiquette of the game,who is going to teach the newbies how they should conduct themselves on and off the course,how many on these pages are trying to change dress codes to encourage the wearing of jeans on the course,WHY !!! my take on it would be if you dont like the traditions and rules set down DONT play or join a club that has the rules you dont like.

Hardly any people on this forum are trying to change it so wearing jeans on the course is encouraged. That's just the paranoid fear-mongering by flat earthers. Smart jeans in the club house seems to be something most people do not object to. And a dress policy that encourages people to wear golf clothing but does not tend to assume those that do not follow it to the letter are anarchists trying to rip up the fabric of society, is as about as far as those left wing liberal do gooders like me would like to see. And I think this because I think it would be one initiative to encourage more people to play this wonderful game.

But as you say, if we end up with workmans vans in the car park and people trying out the game who are not well versed in the etiquette and traditions of the game then that is probably too higher price to pay.

 

[6inchcup]

Hardly any people on this forum are trying to change it so wearing jeans on the course is encouraged. That's just the paranoid fear-mongering by flat earthers. Smart jeans in the club house seems to be something most people do not object to. And a dress policy that encourages people to wear golf clothing but does not tend to assume those that do not follow it to the letter are anarchists trying to rip up the fabric of society, is as about as far as those left wing liberal do gooders like me would like to see. And I think this because I think it would be one initiative to encourage more people to play this wonderful game.

But as you say, if we end up with workmans vans in the car park and people trying out the game who are not well versed in the etiquette and traditions of the game then that is probably too higher price to pay.

so you would not mind being behind a soc. of say 22 never played golf before,cargo pants on,footytops,cans left in the rough etc,not letting you through and being abusive when you suggest they do,but hey they have got to learn haven't they.
Could you also answer my question regarding rules and etiquette,if you know a club has rules regarding dress code on and off the course,but its one of the best tracks in the area would you join and play by the rules you knew about or just moan call the club snobbish and should become modern just to please you.

 

[Hacker Khan]

so you would not mind being behind a soc. of say 22 never played golf before,cargo pants on,footytops,cans left in the rough etc,not letting you through and being abusive when you suggest they do,but hey they have got to learn haven't they.
Could you also answer my question regarding rules and etiquette,if you know a club has rules regarding dress code on and off the course,but its one of the best tracks in the area would you join and play by the rules you knew about or just moan call the club snobbish and should become modern just to please you.

Yes, because that is what would happen if we relaxed the dress codes, you would suddenly get hoards of golf societies all dressed in cargo pants and football tops, leaving cans in the rough and being abusive roaming round all golf courses.

But if you put it that way, then as stated before it is not a price worth paying. And anything we can do to keep the well known specter of 22 strong gangs of golfers wearing football tops, urinating on the fairways and doing donuts on the green in their golf buggies or whatever else you think they would do in your paranoid fantasy land out of golf, is OK with me.

And to answer your question, dress codes would not put me off joining on their own, but I'd also need to consider other factors such as free time to play and value for money. But as stated many times, asking golf freaks who are sad enough not to have much of a life so they spend considerable time posting on golf forums is not getting a representative view from those the game should by trying to attract.

Anyway, this argument is going nowhere and I've seen this storyline played out many times before, so this is hardcore and I'm out.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The main difference IMVHO over the last 60 years is that up to around the mid 1980's golfers used to walk at a brisker pace between shots and generally had more consideration for other players in their group and on the rest of the course.

Observance of the HNSP on the tee and golfers 'ready to play' was also a given.
So much time is wasted by modern players faffing around on the tee.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Out of interest..........
How many 'busy/overcrowded' private members clubs are deserted on Saturday and Sunday evenings.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Trampling on people's lines is poor etiquette. Are you saying it is acceptable to ignore etiquette when playing in 4 balls? Does it have to be observed when playing in 3 balls? Or just 2 balls? What other etiquette should be ignored by 4 balls? Do they R&A have to update their etiquette section to say "doesn't apply to 4 balls"?

Can I stand where I like when you tee off as long as there are 4 of us in the group? Can I stand and look right down the line of your putt as you're putting as long as we're in a 4 ball? Would you ask me to move and/or refuse to putt then?

In summary, hypocrite...

NO. All I am saying is that with everything else that causes slow play there is a lot of frankly unnecessary stuff that goes on on the green with 4 balls, and since we are rarely playing serious comps in a four ball we should just try and get on with it. Of course I'm not saying it's OK to stamp on folks line but you know as well as I do that often in casual play you'll often hear players say 'don't worry about standing on my line'. So clearly it is sometimes OK if a player does stand on another's line.