Is Mourinho trying to be too clever?

[Papas1982]

Squads evolve - its a big clus - youngsters get a taste and fill in with injuries and then get sent on loan to continue their development.

there are multiple stages of players developments - some need regualr first team , some need more coaching , some are ready right now for maybe 10 games a season , some for half and some for the whole season. But they are youngsters - you cant overplay them week in week out or you burn them out early - we did that with Owen. They are all still Liverpool players but they are doing their "Development" at different stages.

Sahko was bought to replace Carra - an established international CB to replace one leaving - we also bought a youngster who is currently on loan.

Shelvey was played a lot last season and just wasnt good enough - Henderson is maturing and improving and is better than him.

ok, if you appear to genuinely believe what you're saying so far enough. I agree about developments stages etc.

I still reckon at best two or three of thise mentioned players will go onto play for you. But the original point, was that not enough teams give youth a chance. On that front, Liverpool aren't in the sense that I meant. Sending 20 players out and hoping they get good enough isn't giving youth a chance when they don't pay til they're in their 20's. I know they're all scouted whist out on loan, but as loads of newly capped players say, when first training with England. They feel they're game develops more with the better players. So staying at Liverpool or whoever their parent club may be could be better for them in the long run. I mean, turning out for Doncaster and the like won't prove too much.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

ok, if you appear to genuinely believe what you're saying so far enough. I agree about developments stages etc.

I still reckon at best two or three of thise mentioned players will go onto play for you. But the original point, was that not enough teams give youth a chance. On that front, Liverpool aren't in the sense that I meant. Sending 20 players out and hoping they get good enough isn't giving youth a chance when they don't pay til they're in their 20's. I know they're all scouted whist out on loan, but as loads of newly capped players say, when first training with England. They feel they're game develops more with the better players. So staying at Liverpool or whoever their parent club may be could be better for them in the long run. I mean, turning out for Doncaster and the like won't prove too much.

Im sorry but going to totally disagreeing - we have given multiple youth players the chance over the years and many have had first team expeirence - some more than others over the years - we have Sterling playing week in week out , we have Flanagan until he was injured playing week in week out, Kelly the same, Suso the same , Wisdom the same - these games played multiple games in the prem and some have gone out to gain week in week out game time to develop their game. Next game 3 posssibly 4 out of the 15 match day squad will be youngsters - maybe even 5 with Smith or Rossiter added to the squad.

Players dont get sent out "hoping they get good enough". Managers need to find the balance between it all and so far i think we are doing pretty damn well.

 

[Papas1982]

Im sorry but going to totally disagreeing - we have given multiple youth players the chance over the years and many have had first team expeirence - some more than others over the years - we have Sterling playing week in week out , we have Flanagan until he was injured playing week in week out, Kelly the same, Suso the same , Wisdom the same - these games played multiple games in the prem and some have gone out to gain week in week out game time to develop their game. Next game 3 posssibly 4 out of the 15 match day squad will be youngsters - maybe even 5 with Smith or Rossiter added to the squad.

Players dont get sent out "hoping they get good enough". Managers need to find the balance between it all and so far i think we are doing pretty damn well.

smith and rosier have one appearance between them so too expect both to play is a stretch.

Kelly, flanagan, wisdom do all look like good prospects. I actually rate them quite highly, but you still spent quite a lot on defenders this summer and loaned some in, surely if they were thought of as highly by management as they are by you this wouldn't have been the case?

The proof is in the pudding as they say, and to site your recent history as proof that youth is given a chance is puzzling? who, other than sterling has come up through the ranks and is still a fully fledged member in last 5-10 years?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

smith and rosier have one appearance between them so too expect both to play is a stretch.

Kelly, flanagan, wisdom do all look like good prospects. I actually rate them quite highly, but you still spent quite a lot on defenders this summer and loaned some in, surely if they were thought of as highly by management as they are by you this wouldn't have been the case?

The proof is in the pudding as they say, and to site your recent history as proof that youth is given a chance is puzzling? who, other than sterling has come up through the ranks and is still a fully fledged member in last 5-10 years?

Smith and Rossister will possibly be on the bench to cover for injuries at fullback and in the middle of the park

Wisdom was deemed not ready for a full season in the prem just yet but needing more game time week in week out - on loan

Kelly and Flanagan - suffering from injuries in recent seasons

Ill say it again about the defenders that came in one last time - Carra was retiring - established prove international defender to replace him - simple. Toure brought in to help cover for injuries for a season whilst the yougsters got game time week in week out. Cissohko brought in to cover the left back area whilst players went on loan. Plus we bought a 19 year old - ok thats the purchase sorted and the guys going out on loan sorted.

There is nothing puzzling about mentioning youngsters that have been given a chance with us and or still Liverpool players

You say you understand player development but it appears that you dont.

At clubs the demands are very high - im not going to go into the reasons why players go on loan again - but just because a player goes on loan doesnt mean he isnt thought of highly by the manager.

I believe we have now exhausted it.

 

[Papas1982]

Smith and Rossister will possibly be on the bench to cover for injuries at fullback and in the middle of the park

Wisdom was deemed not ready for a full season in the prem just yet but needing more game time week in week out - on loan

Kelly and Flanagan - suffering from injuries in recent seasons

Ill say it again about the defenders that came in one last time - Carra was retiring - established prove international defender to replace him - simple. Toure brought in to help cover for injuries for a season whilst the yougsters got game time week in week out. Cissohko brought in to cover the left back area whilst players went on loan. Plus we bought a 19 year old - ok thats the purchase sorted and the guys going out on loan sorted.

There is nothing puzzling about mentioning youngsters that have been given a chance with us and or still Liverpool players

You say you understand player development but it appears that you dont.

At clubs the demands are very high - im not going to go into the reasons why players go on loan again - but just because a player goes on loan doesnt mean he isnt thought of highly by the manager.

I believe we have now exhausted it.

repeating the same thing constantly doesn't make it true, you signed a experienced cb to replace Carra. I get that, but you spent 7m on a youth defender when you already hand an abundance of them? As to naming these youngsters in the bench, it's out of neccesary as you lack the squad depth. If Rogers was given 30m to spend they'd all be out for 'development' instead. As a saints supporter in pretty sure I understand a thing it too about youth development as we've got one of the best systems in the country. And for a player to truly develop they have to play as much as possible at the highest standard.

As you have said, if those players you listed a lot if them are out getting experience as part of development, being out on loan isn't being given a chance. Being in match day teams and squads is. But I'll let you continue to belive that Liverpool are a shining beacon if youth development whilst only Gerrard is and sterling (qpr youth) make it out into the pitch for you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

repeating the same thing constantly doesn't make it true, you signed a experienced cb to replace Carra. I get that, but you spent 7m on a youth defender when you already hand an abundance of them? As to naming these youngsters in the bench, it's out of neccesary as you lack the squad depth. If Rogers was given 30m to spend they'd all be out for 'development' instead. As a saints supporter in pretty sure I understand a thing it too about youth development as we've got one of the best systems in the country. And for a player to truly develop they have to play as much as possible at the highest standard.

As you have said, if those players you listed a lot if them are out getting experience as part of development, being out on loan isn't being given a chance. Being in match day teams and squads is. But I'll let you continue to belive that Liverpool are a shining beacon if youth development whilst only Gerrard is and sterling (qpr youth) make it out into the pitch for you.

Have a good evening :thup:

 

[Dodger]

I was too racking my brain Papas but along with LiverpoolPhil I too couldn't think of anyone who has come through the conveyor belt.

 

[Papas1982]

I was too racking my brain Papas but along with LiverpoolPhil I too couldn't think of anyone who has come through the conveyor belt.

2006 youth cup winners, 10 years after Owen apparently.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2008/10/where-are-they-now-2006-youth-cup-winners/

many ahousehold old name there........

 

[In_The_Rough]

2006 youth cup winners, 10 years after Owen apparently.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2008/10/where-are-they-now-2006-youth-cup-winners/

many ahousehold old name there........

Know Jimmy Ryan our midfield ball winner for the Spireites

 

[Papas1982]

Know Jimmy Ryan our midfield ball winner for the Spireites

And I'm sure he's a quality player just waiting to finish his 'development'?

How are Chesterfield getting in this year?

 

[In_The_Rough]

And I'm sure he's a quality player just waiting to finish his 'development'?

How are Chesterfield getting in this year?

Quality player at the level he is at mate, easily good enough to play in division above and maybe Championship for one of the lesser team in that league but nothing else. If we win tomorrow night we will go back to the top of the table I think after tonights result between Scunthorpe and Fleetwood. We need to go up this season as we spent a fortune(for the division we are in!!!) in the summer on players and wages and might suffer a few financial troubles if we fail to make it.

 

[Papas1982]

Quality player at the level he is at mate, easily good enough to play in division above and maybe Championship for one of the lesser team in that league but nothing else. If we win tomorrow night we will go back to the top of the table I think after tonights result between Scunthorpe and Fleetwood. We need to go up this season as we spent a fortune(for the division we are in!!!) in the summer on players and wages and might suffer a few financial troubles if we fail to make it.

Fingers crossed then matey! Never wanna see a team go out of business. It's shocking to think that the 'massive' wages your paying that could ruin you are probably smaller than most prem team youth squads.

I remember the dark days when Saints had dropped thru the leagues recently and as weird as it sounds, standing on terraces I. The rain was actually more enjoyable than sitting in a quiet stand like can happe at times now. That said we were win ting more the. So that probably helps!

 

[In_The_Rough]

Fingers crossed then matey! Never wanna see a team go out of business. It's shocking to think that the 'massive' wages your paying that could ruin you are probably smaller than most prem team youth squads.

I remember the dark days when Saints had dropped thru the leagues recently and as weird as it sounds, standing on terraces I. The rain was actually more enjoyable than sitting in a quiet stand like can happe at times now. That said we were win ting more the. So that probably helps!

We wont go out of business but I have it on good authority from a source inside the club that we are around 300k over out allocated wage budget. Add to the fact just a few years ago we built our new stadium as Saltergate our old ground was falling to bits. Don't think the Saints ever got low enough to play there Yes Southampton have had a rocky time these last few years but lets hope it has settled down a bit now.

 

[Papas1982]

We wont go out of business but I have it on good authority from a source inside the club that we are around 300k over out allocated wage budget. Add to the fact just a few years ago we built our new stadium as Saltergate our old ground was falling to bits. Don't think the Saints ever got low enough to play there Yes Southampton have had a rocky time these last few years but lets hope it has settled down a bit now.

300k ouch that's pretty high at that level! Promotion would sort that out though. New stadium will pay dividends in the end, can be quite a noose to start with though. Even Arsenal had to tighten up (not that Wenger is usually lavish with spending).

Fortunately things look quite good for us, plus all the rivals struggling . would be nice to be a boring middle table team for a few years.
dont miss the days of Le Tiss dragging us through a season, miss some of his goals mind.

 

[In_The_Rough]

300k ouch that's pretty high at that level! Promotion would sort that out though. New stadium will pay dividends in the end, can be quite a noose to start with though. Even Arsenal had to tighten up (not that Wenger is usually lavish with spending).

Fortunately things look quite good for us, plus all the rivals struggling . would be nice to be a boring middle table team for a few years.
dont miss the days of Le Tiss dragging us through a season, miss some of his goals mind.

Highest wage bill in the division by a fair amount I told. Higher than a lot in the league above as well. Gary Roberts, Ian Evatt, Tommy Lee(not the Motley Crue Drummer)Tendayi Darikawa, Dan Gardner, Marc Richards and Jimmy Ryan are all on high wages comparable with the division above. Stadium will sort itself out and a lot of other events are played there as well, Elton John did a concert at the ground not too long ago. Le Tiss what a legend he was, no training ethic at all bone idle at times but what a player he was and seems a nice chap as well

 

[Papas1982]

Highest wage bill in the division by a fair amount I told. Higher than a lot in the league above as well. Gary Roberts, Ian Evatt, Tommy Lee(not the Motley Crue Drummer)Tendayi Darikawa, Dan Gardner, Marc Richards and Jimmy Ryan are all on high wages comparable with the division above. Stadium will sort itself out and a lot of other events are played there as well, Elton John did a concert at the ground not too long ago. Le Tiss what a legend he was, no training ethic at all bone idle at times but what a player he was and seems a nice chap as well

Hes bever if made it isn't this country now, couldn't run for toffee. Always treated poorly as only a saints player. But he doesn't seem bitter about it at all, have met him in town on quite a few occasions. Always got time for a chat with the fans that still idolise him.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Hes bever if made it isn't this country now, couldn't run for toffee. Always treated poorly as only a saints player. But he doesn't seem bitter about it at all, have met him in town on quite a few occasions. Always got time for a chat with the fans that still idolise him.

The best image I have of him was on soccer Saturday one week when he had been spotted on a night out, he was absolutely steaming and he was propped outside a taxi rank eating his kebab with some mates and someone had obviously sent Jeff Stelling the footage they had recorded

 

[Papas1982]

The best image I have of him was on soccer Saturday one week when he had been spotted on a night out, he was absolutely steaming and he was propped outside a taxi rank eating his kebab with some mates and someone had obviously sent Jeff Stelling the footage they had recorded

I remember the video, they showed in on soccer am first, caught him on way into work.still managed to score on end of show even though probably half cut.

and it was a burger apparently, He is adamant he detests kebabs!

 

[In_The_Rough]

I remember the video, they showed in on soccer am first, caught him on way into work.still managed to score on end of show even though probably half cut.

and it was a burger apparently, He is adamant he detests kebabs!

That's the one, it certainly made me chuckle.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We wont go out of business but I have it on good authority from a source inside the club that we are around 300k over out allocated wage budget. Add to the fact just a few years ago we built our new stadium as Saltergate our old ground was falling to bits. Don't think the Saints ever got low enough to play there Yes Southampton have had a rocky time these last few years but lets hope it has settled down a bit now.

Spireites are my lower div 'follow' team as HID is from Chesterfield. Did once go to Saltergate getting on 20yrs yrs ago and couldn't believe the wooden bench I was sat on in rhs of the main stand and was at Old Trafford for the 3-3 1997 FA Cup semi against Middlesborough - what a game! Kevin Davies ripping Boro to pieces down rhs - and the ball was over the line!!