Kellfire
Blackballed
Oh I actually hate that line of argument too - your "parent" one riles me as well. Haha.
Is Alcoholism a disease?
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
Oh I actually hate that line of argument too - your "parent" one riles me as well. Haha.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
Addicts often don't realise (or indeed believe) they have a problem, so in their minds don't need help!
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
What is the difference between a disease and an illness?
GB72
Money List Winner
I suppose that my view is not that people do not understand but that people have a different understanding.
Take the parenting example. I would never comment on people's parenting as I have never had kids. I know what kids are, I have a sort of understanding of how kids should (in my opinion only) be brought up, should behave etc but the simple fact is that I do not have to live with a child 24 hours a day, plan my life around one etc and, at the end of the day, get to walk away at the end of the day if I am spending time with children. I suspect that being a parent gives a very different insight into looking after and raising children.
This could be looked at in the same way. Treating, helping and dealing with alcoholics is one thing but that is dealing with them free from emotional and personal attachment and the fact is that you get to walk away at the end of the day. Those who have an alcoholic in their life do not have that luxury and thus develop a very different perspective of the problem as a whole.
I would never say that people do not understand but I would strongly suggest that their perception could be very different.
Take the parenting example. I would never comment on people's parenting as I have never had kids. I know what kids are, I have a sort of understanding of how kids should (in my opinion only) be brought up, should behave etc but the simple fact is that I do not have to live with a child 24 hours a day, plan my life around one etc and, at the end of the day, get to walk away at the end of the day if I am spending time with children. I suspect that being a parent gives a very different insight into looking after and raising children.
This could be looked at in the same way. Treating, helping and dealing with alcoholics is one thing but that is dealing with them free from emotional and personal attachment and the fact is that you get to walk away at the end of the day. Those who have an alcoholic in their life do not have that luxury and thus develop a very different perspective of the problem as a whole.
I would never say that people do not understand but I would strongly suggest that their perception could be very different.
I would say that’s a perfectly reasonable and sensible POV. Unfortunately most that use the previously mentioned statements don’t think so rationally.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Not a lot if you accept the Oxford English Dictionary definition
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Well if the Oxford English dictionary says not a lot then I think we can close the thread and say Alcoholism is a disease.
Most on here agree it's an addiction, most agree addiction is a mental illness and if there isn't much difference between illness and disease then there is your loop closed.
Sats
Challenge Tour Pro
Its an addiction that can lead to diseases.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Or a disease (of the mind?) - that leads to, or that manifests as, addiction - that can lead to further disease and illness...
Many alcoholics recognise alcoholic tendencies and behaviours in themselves and their drinking from well before they actually drank to any extent...indeed even when as children having a first Christmas or New Year drink.
By putting addiction before illness or disease you imply that positive lifestyle decisions or choices were made when starting to drink and in the alcoholics early days of drinking - and that these decisions led to addiction. Unfortunately that approach to the individual and the addiction tends to lead to lack of understanding of the problems the alcoholic faces.
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As someone who has had issues with alcohol, including financially, domestically and especially health wise, and watched a parent battle his own demons, it's definitely an illness. Whether you define that as a mental illness as an addiction in the same manner as drugs or tobacco, or a clinical illness as a result of effects drink has on the body I'll leave to the masses to discuss. Touch wood I'll never go back to where I was and while I do enjoy a good blow out still, the boundaries are clearly defined in my mind and I listen to what my body tells me. Having come very close to an early end through my alcohol abuse I'll never put myself or my wife through that again and it's been a long hard road to get where I am now.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
It is quite possible to be an alcoholic and not be pissed all the time. They can still drive a car, work, operate machinery, and live a pretty normal life. Is it illness? No, not really. An addiction is exactly that. An addiction. No one sets out in life to get addicted to something, and it is stupid hard to stop. Why? Because it is an addiction.
Some one who is spannered driving a car is an idiot. It is always a choice to drive, and has zip to do with being an alcoholic.
Some one who is spannered driving a car is an idiot. It is always a choice to drive, and has zip to do with being an alcoholic.
Fair point well made. I was capable of working, playing golf and functioning on a daily business and wasn't addled out of my head all day every day but had a desire, nay compulsion to be at the pub by 9.00pm every night (earlier at weekends). It was an addiction plain and simple
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
A good strong message there sir!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Most I can agree with - though how normal an alcoholics life actually is behind the front door of the house is very debatable - but choice for most alcoholics is not the same as choice for the normal drinker.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Its doesn't matter what it is, it just is. In it's extreme form it ruins people and those around them, very much like drug abuse. Whether sufferers are to blame is a deep and difficult bit of psychology that is so subjective there is probably not a single answer.
Do the semantics really matter? Alcoholics are people that need help. Do we all wish that George Best was still with us, Richard Burton, Oliver Reed? And they are just a small tip of a massive iceberg. Criticising achieves very little.
That doesn't mean give drink drivers a free pass. Separate the law breaking from the condition. Apply the law for the crime but maybe also include compulsory counselling... let's be honest, there's speed awareness courses. How about creating something that must be attended by all DD's.
That doesn't mean give drink drivers a free pass. Separate the law breaking from the condition. Apply the law for the crime but maybe also include compulsory counselling... let's be honest, there's speed awareness courses. How about creating something that must be attended by all DD's.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Absolutely no free passes - alcoholics must face up to everything they have done in the past and not expect any leniency from anyone. Though courts do seem to take into consideration in sentencing when such as a drink-driver takes himself or herself straight into treatment - in the way that Ant McPartlin has done.
On your final point - the government did talk a few years ago about requiring some (perhaps lesser offending) drink-drivers to attend AA.
The problem with that is that individuals attending AA must want to STOP drinking, and must be prepared to accept and understand some of the 'rules' associated with attendance at AA meetings - specifically that of maintaining complete and total anonymity of those attending any meeting and of what is said.
AA made the point that they are not a counselling service, and that the motives of those that courts might send to AA might not be consistent with the objectives of attendance. I haven't heard anything that suggests the government thinking has gone further down that line.
That said - some form of awareness course might well be appropriate for DDs.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
There is an awareness course for DD, but it only applies to the 2nd offence, not the first.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Why has a thread about alcoholism being a disease descended into a drink driving debate? Drink driving is definitely not a disease.
but to the medical profession anyone that drinks more than a unit a day is an alcoholic on the whole. every time i go to the doc for what ever reason they always ask my consumption of booze a day. and its way over the prescribed limit and to all intense a purpose according to them i'm an Alcoholic. I'm not pissed all day every day, i just enjoy wine with my meal each day. the funny thing is my GP drinks as much as me if not more as he's a member of my club and play with him on occasion he likes a few
