Intensive golf lessons

[HomecountiesJohn]

I agree that people can make a big change in a matter of minutes.

Just last week I had my mate at the range who's just starting out. Within 10 minutes I'd stopped his big overswing. Literally 10 minutes and he stopped it.

Not having a pop at Homer here. Just using him as an example. He had a top 100 instructor nearly pulling his hair out trying to get him to shorten his swing.

The problem with golf and I see it over and over again is things rarely stick. It takes time for these things to happen.

I could bet all the money in the world my mate will be over swinging when I get him back on the range this week.

It's understanding the change and having both the mindset and skillset to execute change.

Also commitment and desire to work at it along with patience is the key.

 

[bobmac]

We are just talking sport here - not life , just good old sport and it will always come down to a players natural ability to be the best they can , can’t teach ability

But you can increase knowledge

With respect, isn't that what you do?

It's all well and good practising but if you're not practising correctly you wont see an improvement.

If you were practising exactly what you've been shown, you wouldnt have to keep going back to the same pro for thpe same swing fault etc.

You may spend many hours practising which is needed but when you dont have the standard skillset to be able to adapt to changes it becomes a pointless exercise.

Homers problem isn't lack of practice, his problem is poor shot selection on the course which is why I've been advising him to have an on-course lesson for months.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

With respect, isn't that what you do?

It's all well and good practising but if you're not practising correctly you wont see an improvement.

If you were practising exactly what you've been shown, you wouldnt have to keep going back to the same pro for thpe same swing fault etc.

You may spend many hours practising which is needed but when you dont have the standard skillset to be able to adapt to changes it becomes a pointless exercise.

No and No. I will always go away and work on the changes and will send regular video footage to ensure what I am doing is right. I am not going back with the same fault time after time and we're working a change at the time to make something repeatable within the limits of my movement

 

[HomecountiesJohn]

No and No. I will always go away and work on the changes and will send regular video footage to ensure what I am doing is right. I am not going back with the same fault time after time and we're working a change at the time to make something repeatable within the limits of my movement

Apologies, I'm certain i'd read one of your recent posts insinuating you had the same old swing fault that kept creeping into your game.

 

[garyinderry]

And herein lies the problem. Unless you groove in the change(s) with hours on the range you end up reverting back to what you always did.

Well This is it for us regual golfers. We have jobs and families to deal with every day. There isnt that many who can dedicate time every day to make the changes stick so the learning process gets drawn out and many backward steps made along the way.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Well This is it for us regual golfers. We have jobs and families to deal with every day. There isnt that many who can dedicate time every day to make the changes stick so the learning process gets drawn out and many backward steps made along the way.

I agree with you 100% but there appears to be people commenting in this thread that you don't need to groove in changes.

 

[Boomy]

And herein lies the problem. Unless you groove in the change(s) with hours on the range you end up reverting back to what you always did.

And my point is: not everyone takes crazy hours and thousands of balls to groove something in. The problem with a lot of amateurs is that it takes so long, or so many balls because they’re not at all practising what they are supposed to. I can make a significant change in 60-90 minutes and only hit 30-50 balls - by focusing on the execution required. Not by just spending hours hitting balls. Quality over quantity every single time! And each time you focus and do it right this then lessens the total time needed to groove in the change.
Very few people actually practice what they are supposed to at all, by using a camera or mirror to execute the move so know they are doing it right - then they go from lesson to lesson complaining of no, or very little progress even though they hit hundreds of balls. Practice properly like a pro then you don’t need to hit hundreds and thousands of balls.

 

[sweaty sock]

This all comes down to understanding for me..


If you understand the change you can make it without hundreds of balls. If you dont understand the change youll never make it.

Take the overswing example, pretty sure John Daly managed OK, he understood the swing and knew what he needed to do. If you try to change something without understanding why, then theres not enough range balls in the world.

As for 'grooving' for my money thats tosh. Standing on the driving range is the only time ever that you try to hit a club from a pefectly flat repeatable lie, its exact yardage. Every swing you make on the course needs a variation for lie, distance, slope etc etc.... so your grooved swing is never needed, what you need is the ability to understand your swing and the ability to produce an effective swing for the situation

 

[Boomy]

This all comes down to understanding for me..


If you understand the change you can make it without hundreds of balls. If you dont understand the change youll never make it.

Take the overswing example, pretty sure John Daly managed OK, he understood the swing and knew what he needed to do. If you try to change something without understanding why, then theres not enough range balls in the world.

As for 'grooving' for my money thats tosh. Standing on the driving range is the only time ever that you try to hit a club from a pefectly flat repeatable lie, its exact yardage. Every swing you make on the course needs a variation for lie, distance, slope etc etc.... so your grooved swing is never needed, what you need is the ability to understand your swing and the ability to produce an effective swing for the situation

Well said, and a very valid point about understanding what it is you’re trying to achieve. I always ask lots of questions and make sure when I leave that lesson I know in no uncertain terms what I’m working on in between.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

And my point is: not everyone takes crazy hours and thousands of balls to groove something in. The problem with a lot of amateurs is that it takes so long, or so many balls because they’re not at all practising what they are supposed to. I can make a significant change in 60-90 minutes and only hit 30-50 balls - by focusing on the execution required. Not by just spending hours hitting balls. Quality over quantity every single time! And each time you focus and do it right this then lessens the total time needed to groove in the change.
Very few people actually practice what they are supposed to at all, by using a camera or mirror to execute the move so know they are doing it right - then they go from lesson to lesson complaining of no, or very little progress even though they hit hundreds of balls. Practice properly like a pro then you don’t need to hit hundreds and thousands of balls.

Well done, you must be a very accomplished golfer

 

[Deleted member 29109]

If Tiger Woods says it takes a year and 100k shots to make a swing change. And thats with the best coaches in the world watching over him. I’m inclined to believe him.

 

[bobmac]

I can make a significant change in 60-90 minutes and only hit 30-50 balls - by focusing on the execution required.

The problem then is when you make the next change and you can't focus all your thoughts on the old change.

Mr slicer comes for a lesson with an out to in swing, a poor aim (left) and a weak grip.
He learns the new grip which after a while starts to feel comfortable so then he learns a better swing path and the grip is forgotten. Then he learns a better aim and the swing path is forgotten.
To make a successful permanent change that can be done without thinking takes time and only when that's done the brain is then free to focus all your thoughts on the next change.

 

[RichA]

That is an absolutely dreadful analogy! It is so wrong on so many levels, so dismissive and negative. My goodness, anybody that comes on here for structured and sensible advice stands no chance with posts like yours!

Like me, the OP is a middle-aged recreational golfer with a mid-high handicap. I'm going to assume he also has a full-time job and other responsibilities.
He hasn't mentioned being an elite sportsman and gentleman of leisure, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that he is not.
Your advice would be great for someone with the time and ability to chase scratch. My advice for the OP would be to manage his expectations and concentrate on enjoying golf and making small improvements first, rather than immediately setting off down an expensive route that may result in disillusionment.

The Mondeo remark was an attempt to summarise the above light-heartedly. It's wasn't Confucian.

 

[sweaty sock]

If Tiger Woods says it takes a year and 100k shots to make a swing change. And thats with the best coaches in the world watching over him. I’m inclined to believe him.

When did he say that? Im sure Ive heard him say he can make a change in an afternoon if needs be?

Suppose the diffence between a 'change' and a 'start again from scratch while staying within the best 100 golfers in the world' could be different things...

 

[Boomy]

Well done, you must be a very accomplished golfer

Thank you. But I wasn’t bragging in the slightest, just highlighting a fact.

It depends how you quantify accomplished - I’ve been back golfing (after a 10/11 year break) for 15 months, 3 of which were lockdown so 12 months playing and practising - I have knocked 12 shots of my handicap, am on the verge of single figures, have won an open, and 2 Division 1 trophy competitions at our club. My best score is a 6 over gross 78 in tough conditions on a links course. So, when reviewing my first full year back, yes, I have accomplished a decent amount. Very happy with the results which reflect the structured work I have put in at the range, and with my coach. I haven’t hit thousands of balls at the range, I’ve just tried to hit each one correctly. I’m a lower handicap and playing better than I ever have - I put this down to my practice regimen and attitude towards learning/adapting.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Thank you. But I wasn’t bragging in the slightest, just highlighting a fact.

It depends how you quantify accomplished - I’ve been back golfing (after a 10/11 year break) for 15 months, 3 of which were lockdown so 12 months playing and practising - I have knocked 12 shots of my handicap, am on the verge of single figures, have won an open, and 2 Division 1 trophy competitions at our club. My best score is a 6 over gross 78 in tough conditions on a links course. So, when reviewing my first full year back, yes, I have accomplished a decent amount. Very happy with the results which reflect the structured work I have put in at the range, and with my coach. I haven’t hit thousands of balls at the range, I’ve just tried to hit each one correctly. I’m a lower handicap and playing better than I ever have - I put this down to my practice regimen and attitude towards learning/adapting.

With your ability to incorporate change quickly I'm expecting you to get down to scratch this summer

 

[Deleted member 29109]

When did he say that? Im sure Ive heard him say he can make a change in an afternoon if needs be?

Suppose the diffence between a 'change' and a 'start again from scratch while staying within the best 100 golfers in the world' could be different things...

Many years ago. But it was probably in relation to a complete swing change like when he moved away from Butch. Many pros can probably make a small change very quickly. But getting it to stick under pressure??

 

[Boomy]

The problem then is when you make the next change and you can't focus all your thoughts on the old change.

Mr slicer comes for a lesson with an out to in swing, a poor aim (left) and a weak grip.
He learns the new grip which after a while starts to feel comfortable so then he learns a better swing path and the grip is forgotten. Then he learns a better aim and the swing path is forgotten.
To make a successful permanent change that can be done without thinking takes time and only when that's done the brain is then free to focus all your thoughts on the next change.

Not everyone is like that.

When practising at the range I follow a process going right back to the first thing we worked on, steps 1,2,3 etc to make sure everything is in its place.

When I play golf I check my address and hit the ball.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Many years ago. But it was probably in relation to a complete swing change like when he moved away from Butch. Many pros can probably make a small change very quickly. But getting it to stick under pressure??

The key thing. Half an hour on the range doesn't make it stick despite what all the handicap golfers on here think.

 

[Boomy]

With your ability to incorporate change quickly I'm expecting you to get down to scratch this summer

End of the year hopefully ? Pro tour by 2023 ?