Injury on an icy course

[jammag]

I read a few of the opening posts and seen it has gone 12 pages but I am not reading all these opinions but I will state a couple of things.

1) The club was making money out of this somehow either membership or green fee, if they are offering the facility they are deeming that it is fit for purpose.

2) I feel an injury of this kind is an unfortunate incident but their should be insurance in place to cover this, if the insurance does not cover this then I feel suing maybe the other option as it was not his fault and I am sure he may have lost some earnings. Whilst this may not seem the right thing to do for a lot of people being that individual in that situation I think a lot of people may view that route.

3) If this kind of injury happened at work then I am sure most people would be saying there should be some kind of compensation as it wasnt fit for purpose.

4) At what point is any kind of injury deemed to be fit for an insurance claim because we all know we run the risk of getting hit by a golf ball, so what is the difference as most would claim for that if it caused significant damage. What next the green keepers lawn mower runs over your foot cutting it to shreads but because the sign says green keepers have right of way then you dont have a leg to stand on?

Yes its all unfortunate but I am sure something like a little gesture from the club would have kept the peace and he may not even considered claiming as it could be you know what maybe you shouldnt of gone out but we let you and you was happy to, heres a couple months free subscription we hope you get better soon. It shows they care OP probably happy with that and every one moves on.

 

[jpenno]

Sajkox - what Tax do you pay to be able to drive?

Road Tax was abolished years ago and replaced by Vehicle Excise Duty, based on emitions, as some vehicles have no or low emissions they have no duty to pay

 

[jpenno]

I read a few of the opening posts and seen it has gone 12 pages but I am not reading all these opinions but I will state a couple of things.

1) The club was making money out of this somehow either membership or green fee, if they are offering the facility they are deeming that it is fit for purpose.

2) I feel an injury of this kind is an unfortunate incident but their should be insurance in place to cover this, if the insurance does not cover this then I feel suing maybe the other option as it was not his fault and I am sure he may have lost some earnings. Whilst this may not seem the right thing to do for a lot of people being that individual in that situation I think a lot of people may view that route.

3) If this kind of injury happened at work then I am sure most people would be saying there should be some kind of compensation as it wasnt fit for purpose.

4) At what point is any kind of injury deemed to be fit for an insurance claim because we all know we run the risk of getting hit by a golf ball, so what is the difference as most would claim for that if it caused significant damage. What next the green keepers lawn mower runs over your foot cutting it to shreads but because the sign says green keepers have right of way then you dont have a leg to stand on?

Yes its all unfortunate but I am sure something like a little gesture from the club would have kept the peace and he may not even considered claiming as it could be you know what maybe you shouldnt of gone out but we let you and you was happy to, heres a couple months free subscription we hope you get better soon. It shows they care OP probably happy with that and every one moves on.

In response to Point 2 - why is not the OP's fault? he should have looked where he was going, he noticed a change in conditions and chose to walk there. The accident is his fault not the clubs

 

[Imurg]

I

2) I feel an injury of this kind is an unfortunate incident but their should be insurance in place to cover this, if the insurance does not cover this then I feel suing maybe the other option as it was not his fault

So who's fault is it?
The problem is that he knew that it was icy, he saw a change in the ground conditions but continued to play/walk over the ice.

Another example could be someone deciding to run down a hill in a park. Run downhill and unless you're very careful you're going to fall over and possibly do yourself some damage - is it the fault of whoever owns the park? No it's down to the person who decides to run down it.
A Golf Course is playable even when frozen - ok it's not enjoyable but it's playable.
Knowing that it's icy and seeing an icy patch but still walking over it is like running down that hill....

 

[jammag]

If you are taking money from someone paying then that facility should be 100% safe if not certain areas should be cordoned off accordingly or appropriate signs in place so you avoid it, if this is not done then the club is 100% responsible in my eyes.

Running down a steep hill in a public place is a little different you have not paid for the privilege of doing such activity and I am sure there will be signs knowing our health and safety saying beware steep hill or something of that kind.

If you went to your local swimming pool and they take your money 99% of the pool is fine but in 1 corner theres a harsh chemical causing a problem if you enter that area. They dont tell you about this and you get a serious allergy or reaction to said chemical then you going to say oh actually I chose to swim so its my fault or would you be up in arms if it was you or your child who has been seriously hurt by this?

 

[Colin2324]

So who's fault is it?
The problem is that he knew that it was icy, he saw a change in the ground conditions but continued to play/walk .

let me clarify that. I became aware of the change in underfoot conditions and immediately fell. I had no time to make an informed decision to carry on at that point. The decision for me to go no further was made for me.

it wasn't 'icy' up to that point. It was 'frosty' There is a clear distinction between the two conditions.

'Frosty' I was happy to play. 'Icy' I should not have been exposed to and it was very easy for them to ensure I wasn't. In fact their winter check list insisted upon it.

 

[Naybrains]

Very much in Craw's camp on this one.
I'm daft enough to run a Bus & Coach company, don't get me started......
36 vehicles each fitted with a £2500 cctv system - why? Because of the where there's a blame there's a claim culture we live in.

 

[jpenno]

If you are taking money from someone paying then that facility should be 100% safe if not certain areas should be cordoned off accordingly or appropriate signs in place so you avoid it, if this is not done then the club is 100% responsible in my eyes.

Running down a steep hill in a public place is a little different you have not paid for the privilege of doing such activity and I am sure there will be signs knowing our health and safety saying beware steep hill or something of that kind.

If you went to your local swimming pool and they take your money 99% of the pool is fine but in 1 corner theres a harsh chemical causing a problem if you enter that area. They dont tell you about this and you get a serious allergy or reaction to said chemical then you going to say oh actually I chose to swim so its my fault or would you be up in arms if it was you or your child who has been seriously hurt by this?

Thats nonsense - If your opinion is correct then we all need to forget about playing on golf courses and will have to play on simulators, one at a time just in case anyone else is around and might get injured. A Golf course will have natural obstacles and potential dangers, Hills, slopes, potholes, mud and water - are you seriously suggesting that these should be fenced off and/or warnings posted on each tee?

The OP KNEW it was frosty and icy and chose to proceed, he took the risk and the Course should not be liable for his actions in walking down a slippy slope.

 

[User20205]

let me clarify that. I became aware of the change in underfoot conditions and immediately fell. I had no time to make an informed decision to carry on at that point. The decision for me to go no further was made for me.

it wasn't 'icy' up to that point. It was 'frosty' The is a clear distinction between the two conditions.

I may have missed this earlier, but what spikes did you have in?

There is a sign at my place that recommends metal spikes during the winter for this very reason. May as well recommend wellies at the moment though

 

[jpenno]

The Course will hopefully run the Defence of Non Volenti Fit Injuria

In the law of Negligence, the precept that denotes that a person who knows and comprehends the peril and voluntarily exposes himself or herself to it, although not negligent in doing so, is regarded as engaging in an assumption of the risk and is precluded from a recovery for an injury ensuing therefrom

 

[upsidedown]

If you are taking money from someone paying then that facility should be 100% safe if not certain areas should be cordoned off accordingly or appropriate signs in place so you avoid it, if this is not done then the club is 100% responsible in my eyes.

You'd not be a winter sports fan then?

 

[Dodger]

So much on this thread that sums up what is wrong with people these days.

If the opening poster was related to me or a pal of mine I really would despair.

Pish,utter pish.

 

[Imurg]

If you are taking money from someone paying then that facility should be 100% safe if not certain areas should be cordoned off accordingly or appropriate signs in place so you avoid it, if this is not done then the club is 100% responsible in my eyes.

Running down a steep hill in a public place is a little different you have not paid for the privilege of doing such activity and I am sure there will be signs knowing our health and safety saying beware steep hill or something of that kind.

If you went to your local swimming pool and they take your money 99% of the pool is fine but in 1 corner theres a harsh chemical causing a problem if you enter that area. They dont tell you about this and you get a serious allergy or reaction to said chemical then you going to say oh actually I chose to swim so its my fault or would you be up in arms if it was you or your child who has been seriously hurt by this?

Nowhere is 100% safe - no golf course anywhere....
Do we now have to close all golf courses or put up thousands of signs to warn everyone about every single thing taht can do us harm over an area of a couple of hundred acres.....? How many can you think of.

Your swimming pool case is so different - you wouldn't expect there to be a dangerous chemical, you couldn't know that it would be there so you would sue the pool for everything they've got - no question

In the OP he KNEW it was icy, he NOTICED a change in the ground, he knew there was a risk of slippage and he carried on...who's at fault.?

What happened to people taking responsibilty for their actions?

 

[Colin2324]

The Course will hopefully run the Defence of Non Volenti Fit Injuria

In the law of Negligence, the precept that denotes that a person who knows and comprehends the peril and voluntarily exposes himself or herself to it, although not negligent in doing so, is regarded as engaging in an assumption of the risk and is precluded from a recovery for an injury ensuing therefrom

Almost correct but the landowner first has to ensure that they have taken reasonable steps to minimise the risk. They had a risk management strategy in place for that very purpose covering the very circumstances and conditions on the course that day and they didnt follow it.

 

[Naybrains]

Wind up, surely.

 

[jpenno]

Almost correct but the landowner first has to ensure that they have taken reasonable steps to minimise the risk. They had a risk management strategy in place for that very purpose covering the very circumstances and conditions on the course that day and they didnt follow it.

What steps did you take to minimise the risk?

How far did you hobble back in the dangerous conditions?

 

[MadAdey]

Another thing I never said.

Why do you take my point and twist it to an extreme? What is the need? Don't you think that your opinion is strong enough given the situation being discussed without resorting to such a childish retort?

But all the way through this thread you keep saying it is the fault of the golf club and not the OP's so he should take them for every penny he can. So is that not you saying it is OK to put the blame at the feet of someone else, when you should really be taking some responsibility for your own actions?

If I have misunderstood the point you have been making the please accept my apology as I am not trying to make you look bad and single you out....:thup:

 

[sajkox]

The OP KNEW it was frosty and icy and chose to proceed, he took the risk and the Course should not be liable for his actions in walking down a slippy slope.

Dont want to put words into anyones mouth ... so ... when I go to play and there is snow - I expect snow not hidden frozen lake that can break my neck. If there was standing water that got frozen and covered in snow I would expect it to be marked / signed or hole / club closed. YES.
The only risk I'm taking knowingly every single time on golf course is of being killed by a..holes that don't shout fore. I am aware of that risk. Yet if I was hit I would sue. Different matter though.

 

[kmdmr1]

Sorry no sympathy. You made the choice to play, no one forced you to go out at gun point. You knew its frosty, you should have known that frost will mean ice in places therefore if you were a silly billy who slipped on the ice then I guess that's nobody's fault bar your own. We really are becoming a chase the $$$ country as well and its sad.

All your going to do is put up the fees for next year as guess who will foot the bill for an increased insurance premium next year if the insurance company does agree to accept liability.

Other than that I wish you a speedy recovery and hope you get back onto the course soon.

I am with Craw on this,your choice to play,
If more people start claiming, clubs will close the course with the slightest hint of frost,

 

[Qwerty]

If you are taking money from someone paying then that facility should be 100% safe if not certain areas should be cordoned off accordingly or appropriate signs in place so you avoid it,

Ill be playing football on Sunday on the local council pitches, I'll also be paying for the privilege. Do I need to make sure that the muddy parts of the pitch are cordoned off? Otherwise some of us could slip or fall.