Injury on an icy course

[sydney greenstreet]

If came up your garden path and slipped over on ice, would you be happy if I sued you for £20K for loss of earnings, pain and suffering? No I thought not.....:mmm:

Maybe not but you might still have a claim, just as if your window cleaner fell off his ladder while cleaning your windows

 

[spawn_ukuk]

Firstly i hope you get well but im sure you get the feeling from most of the members here that what you are doing is wrong
It was frosty and you hurt yourself thats terrible of course, but its not the golf clubs fault.
All your doing is making the golf club protect its self from future problems, making it harder and more expensive for people who just want to play golf

If you read in a paper or saw on the news this story i know you'd think its just as ridiculous as most of us do.

 

[bladeplayer]

Maybe the club should have done more and identified that it was not safe to use due to some ice. But a course is a very large area of land, so it would mean the ground staff going out all morning checking every where that is within the course boundary, to make sure of no ice. To do that is going to take most of the morning though, so the course would not open up until around 11:00, then people would not have time to get a game in.

The other thing that will happen is courses will just shut at the first sign of frost like people have already said. Because the insurance companies will start to put disclaimers in that if the club do let people out in icy conditions, they will not be covered for any personal injury claims, meaning the club would have to foot the bill if anyone did get injured.

So either way the golfer is going to loose out.

I agree totaly with everything you say mate , i dont agree you should be allow sue as if you choose to go out you accept responsability , but unfortunatly the courts might not see it that way ..

Remember the guy who got hit with the ball & lost an eye , surely you should expect the chance of getting hit if you are on a course , he still got a ball of money off both the golfer & the club .. insurance mate is a dodgy place ..

 

[MadAdey]

It is a crazy world we are living in now and the first tee is going to have to have an M25 style sign post up warning of all possible problems that may be on the course, just to try and prevent anyone from suing them. This is some of the things that I feel they will need to put up:

In wet or icy conditions ground may become slippery, walk with extreme caution.
In cold climates ensure that you have suitable clothing and a warm drink to prevent illness and the risk of hypothermia.
Be aware of people swinging golf clubs.
Be aware of golf balls that may come from all random directions.
Look out for falling branches from trees.
Always be aware of holes created by burrowing animals.
Keep a clear distance from all wildlife to prevent injury.
Wear a suitable hat and apply sun block when playing in the sun.
Do not walk up any incline greater than 20*, due to the risk of slipping.
Keep 3 foot back from the edge of any raised tee or green to prevent the risk of falling.
Take care when stepping into, or out of a bunker.
Do not stand too close to bunkers as sand in the eye is pretty sore.
150 yard markers whilst there for your benefit, can also be a trip hazard, proceed with care.

Imagine what your first tee is going to look like with a board covering all that plus other risks that will need to be covered, just to stop the club being liable for any little injury that may occur.

 

[bladeplayer]

I've read this with some interest. I'm surprised at how many people there are who think the OP is a lowly individual and suing the club is a terrible thing. I'm not party to 'sue everyone for everything', but there has to be some responsibility from the club for opening the gates? If you can't check the course after very extreme conditions, then maybe there should be a sign to say 'Dangerous conditions underfoot' - I know it sounds lame and pathetic, but it covers any unforseen injuries like this.

I'm sure we've all seen the 'Golfer gets £4000 for lost eye' story from that golf insurance company.
Seems that the OP has gone silent though (probably due to the ear bashing he got) so we'll never know more info about the case...

400,000 i think mate & i think club got done for 30% & player that hit it for 70% ..

 

[cookelad]

It is a crazy world we are living in now and the first tee is going to have to have an M25 style sign post up warning of all possible problems that may be on the course, just to try and prevent anyone from suing them. This is some of the things that I feel they will need to put up:

In wet or icy conditions ground may become slippery, walk with extreme caution.
In cold climates ensure that you have suitable clothing and a warm drink to prevent illness and the risk of hypothermia.
Be aware of people swinging golf clubs.
Be aware of golf balls that may come from all random directions.
Look out for falling branches from trees.
Always be aware of holes created by burrowing animals.
Keep a clear distance from all wildlife to prevent injury.
Wear a suitable hat and apply sun block when playing in the sun.
Do not walk up any incline greater than 20*, due to the risk of slipping.
Keep 3 foot back from the edge of any raised tee or green to prevent the risk of falling.
Take care when stepping into, or out of a bunker.
Do not stand too close to bunkers as sand in the eye is pretty sore.
150 yard markers whilst there for your benefit, can also be a trip hazard, proceed with care.
Following breathing out be sure to breathe in after a short amount of time to avoid becoming lightheaded and/or dead

Imagine what your first tee is going to look like with a board covering all that plus other risks that will need to be covered, just to stop the club being liable for any little injury that may occur.

Added one more that appears to be needed!

 

[MadAdey]

I agree totaly with everything you say mate , i dont agree you should be allow sue as if you choose to go out you accept responsability , but unfortunatly the courts might not see it that way ..

Remember the guy who got hit with the ball & lost an eye , surely you should expect the chance of getting hit if you are on a course , he still got a ball of money off both the golfer & the club .. insurance mate is a dodgy place ..

I know what you are saying buddy. In the 22 years that I have been playing 2 of my mates have been involved in personal injury claims on the course. One was making a claim the other was being claimed against. Fortunately my friends won on both accounts. Just a brief outline what happened:

Me and my mate where stood on the tee, he tees off and thins one up the left side of the fairway. At the same time someone comes walking onto our hole from another fairway at this point, we scream "FORE" but it was too late. The ball hits him full on the back of the hand, smashing it to bits and making it explode with blood. The judge was in favour of my mate because the injured party came walking onto our hole as we were playing a shot, so it was his own neglect that caused his injury.

Another mate a couple of years ago was stood round the side of some bushes playing a shot when someone messing around in a golf buggy came round the side of them and cleaned him out breaking his ankle. That one did not get to court, no surprise there it was pretty obvious who was the guilty party. He got a nice little compo payout on that one.

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

Sorry no sympathy. You made the choice to play, no one forced you to go out at gun point. You knew its frosty, you should have known that frost will mean ice in places therefore if you were a silly billy who slipped on the ice then I guess that's nobody's fault bar your own. We really are becoming a chase the $$$ country as well and its sad.

All your going to do is put up the fees for next year as guess who will foot the bill for an increased insurance premium next year if the insurance company does agree to accept liability.

Other than that I wish you a speedy recovery and hope you get back onto the course soon.

Yep, I agree and there's no sympathy from me other than an ouch.

Frost and Ice in the winter and in the summer you could slip on wet grass. It's an outside sport, watch your feet and be careful of flying golf balls.

 

[chrisd]

I know what you are saying buddy. In the 22 years that I have been playing 2 of my mates have been involved in personal injury claims on the course. One was making a claim the other was being claimed against. Fortunately my friends won on both accounts. Just a brief outline what happened:

Me and my mate where stood on the tee, he tees off and thins one up the left side of the fairway. At the same time someone comes walking onto our hole from another fairway at this point, we scream "FORE" but it was too late. The ball hits him full on the back of the hand, smashing it to bits and making it explode with blood. The judge was in favour of my mate because the injured party came walking onto our hole as we were playing a shot, so it was his own neglect that caused his injury.

Another mate a couple of years ago was stood round the side of some bushes playing a shot when someone messing around in a golf buggy came round the side of them and cleaned him out breaking his ankle. That one did not get to court, no surprise there it was pretty obvious who was the guilty party. He got a nice little compo payout on that one.

............ and both cases appear to have been judged absolutely correctl, given your description.

Someone wanting the golf club to be responsible for them slipping in icy conditions when a 4 year old would know the dangers is absolutely disgusting as far as I am concerned. There is only one person at fault!

 

[duncan mackie]

id be surprised if the OP has not got a case here , ok the ammount maybe affected somewhat by own responsability etc, but if you take someones money & let them out on a course that is or maybe have dangerous areas there is a duty of care & responsability on the seller/provider (ie the club), & there is no doubt if there are inclines & declines on a course then a danger exists on this course.. i agree its a shame but its reality .. if any part of the course is in a "dangerous" condition , open to interpetation of course , it should not be open ,

good outline, but I would tend to agree with the points you make rather than their interpretation here on the basis of the OP

I beleive that the basic situation would be that the Operators must make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the health and safety risks to both workers and participants to help decide what they must do to make their activity safe (risk assessment)

Once these risks have been assessed, operators should implement sensible and proportionate measures to control the risks.

This has tended to focus on any artificial area when dealing with open ground leisure - which is why you will tend to see specific notices associated with steep concrete slopes, timber steps and the like.

In this instance you have a risk associated with entirely natural elements for which the only practical risk measure would be course closure - however this would, on that basis, have to be extended to permanent closure if it was to effectively cover wet, damp, animal holes, risk of tripping over tree roots, risk of drowning in ponds (or casual water) etc so basically there is a general acceptance of natural risks when participating in the sport.

The OP's wording makes it remarkably clear that he recognised the specific risks, and was even monitoring them as they went onto higher ground and saw ice before falling and suffering an injury. If, for example, this ice was a result of a known leaking pipe during dry conditions then I an see a case (success being dependent on when it had occured and whether it would have been reasonable for the club to establish the situation, recognise the risk and take action).

 

[Mozza73]

Get well soon OP, but I hope you don't get a penny.

 

[Wooky]

Mmm.
On the basis of reading this thread, I am going to get some golf insurance.
Although I have thought about it before, I have never bothered to do anything about it.
But, it is a bit worrying reading the amount people on this thread who think that suing a club for something like this is ok.

 

[Birchy]

When you see a course is icy then surely everybody knows it could be slippy? Just like if you walk out into the road when theres a car coming it might hurt a bit or if you juggle knives you might stab yourself?

We will be wearing crash helmets playing golf at this rate.

 

[MadAdey]

Just another little thought on this. If the club did not warn him about the risk of ice and put no signs out either, then is it possible that the insurance will not cover this? Because the club has not taken every step possible to try and prevent this form happening. I am no insurance wiz and someone who either works in it or has worked in it may know better. I know with car insurance, if you have an accident while under the influence or driving recklessly then they will not pay out.

I am just wondering if this is the same with a golf clubs 3rd party liability insurance if they have not taken all the possible steps to prevent the accident. If this is the case and the club has to stump up say £10k to him, this could cripple them if they are one of these clubs that are really struggling to make ends meet.

So not to put a guilt trip on you, but when you win this case and the club has to pay your compo. There will be a load of people out of work and a few hundred people without a golf club, or those members will end up with an extra £50 on next years fees to cover it......

 

[MadAdey]

Mmm.
On the basis of reading this thread, I am going to get some golf insurance.
Although I have thought about it before, I have never bothered to do anything about it.
But, it is a bit worrying reading the amount people on this thread who think that suing a club for something like this is ok.

You are either mad or rich enough to pay the compo, not to have insurance.

Always makes me laugh when people do not just have some basic 3rd party liability cover as it is not that expensive really. I do not ever bother with cover for my kit though, as it is only covered against theft if locked in your boot, out of site, during daylight hours, on the first Sunday of the month, but only if it is raining............

 

[The Sclaffer]

Id be happy to sign a disclaimer everytime I played if it cut this kind of thing out. It may be the direction were heading in.

I've already been requested to do this when visiting some courses. I think there may have been an insurance element built in to the cost of the green fee.

Having said it's very very sad that things have come to this but it's an indication of today's society where personal responsibility has become a thing of the past and it's now a case of "Who can I blame?"

 

[Wooky]

Thing is though, where will it all end?
We have all played on courses with maybe wooden steps up to an elevated tee, these steps are often wet, slippery & maybe not in the best of condition, quite easy to slip & fall on them.

Or maybe whilst searching for a ball in the undergrowth, you trip on a bramble, or put your foot in a hole or slip down a bank?

There are any number of scenarios you can think of that could cause an injury, we can't just sue at the drop of a hat for everything.

We really have to take some responsibility for our own safety in day to day life, instead of walking around with blinkers on, thinking it's ok, if I have an accident I will just sue, because it's bound to be someone else's fault.

 

[Qwerty]

Id be happy to sign a disclaimer everytime I played if it cut this kind of thing out. It may be the direction were heading in.

I've already been requested to do this when visiting some courses. I think there may have been an insurance element built in to the cost of the green fee.?"

It would be worth signing something if it resulted in us being rid of the health and safety signs that appear to be popping up on local courses. Also tee blocks seem to be disappearing in favour of flat coloured discs, I'm presuming to eliminate the potential trip hazard.

 

[CMAC]

http://www.golfclubmanagement.net/2013/03/shock-320k-damages-award-against-golf-club/

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've read the thread and to be honest, I agree with the majority. Although it was an unfortunate incident it was an accident and the OP had made the decision to go out and play. I don't agree with the compensation culture, whether that is suing the club directly or indirectly and surely if the golfer had insurance he would have been covered.