Injury on an icy course

[Colin2324]

Hello all.

Back in December I was playing a course with friends. This was not my home course but they are both members.

When we arrived the course was frosty, hard in places but with just enough give in the ground to play safely. We were allowed to commence play with no warnings or concerns expressed by the starter re the state of the course.

The first few holes were fine, not particularly enjoyable to play but safe enough. Over the next few holes the course rises and by the tenth we were at the highest point. Course still looked as it had been down below.

We teed off at the tenth and started to walk the fairway. Just then I noticed a change in state of the ground. A massive area of solid ice where undrained water had frozen over. It didn't look any different because it has a layer of frost but it was like an ice rink underfoot. The bottom line here is that I slipped and broke my ankle.

I take the view that the upper reaches of the course, which it turned out were in pretty bad condition all over, should have been closed. The clubs insurers take the view that I accepted the risks but the club haven't completed their own bad weather safety procedures.

How do people feel about risk on the golf course ? How responsible should a club be for safety of its guests or is it simply my own damn fault for embarking on a game in zero temperatures. How do people feel about making claims for this sort of thing ?

I should stress that I am NOT suing a golf club who can barely afford to pay out. I am claiming on their insurance, or trying to. Obviously. I can't identify the club concerned as we are going through a legal procedure but I just wondered if anyone has an opinion on the whole thing or perhaps has had a similar experience.

 

[Slab]

Firstly I hope you're well on the mend, must have been a painful injury

Secondly you don't say what you're claiming for (I don't mean the amount) I mean what's the basis of your claim, is it loss of earnings, damage to equipment or solely the fact that you were injured?

It might help people give an opinion on this

 

[Wayman]

Wow hope everything goes fine

Let us know what happens interested in this

 

[thecraw]

Sorry no sympathy. You made the choice to play, no one forced you to go out at gun point. You knew its frosty, you should have known that frost will mean ice in places therefore if you were a silly billy who slipped on the ice then I guess that's nobody's fault bar your own. We really are becoming a chase the $$$ country as well and its sad.

All your going to do is put up the fees for next year as guess who will foot the bill for an increased insurance premium next year if the insurance company does agree to accept liability.

Other than that I wish you a speedy recovery and hope you get back onto the course soon.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Firstly I hope you are making a good recovery.

As regards the fault, how responsible can the club be for a condition that in your own words didn't look any different? I would be of the school that says if you go out in frosty conditions you should be aware of the possibility that it could well be slippery and you should take suitable precautions. I don't need a warning on my coffee cup that the contents might be hot, and I don't need the starter or anyone else to tell me there is a likelihood that I will end up on my backside when it is frosty if I am not careful, it's pretty obvious as far as I am concerned. Whilst I wouldn't wish it on anyone, I think that you chose to go out in those conditions so the responsibility is yours; it is not as if you had to go out and play.

Out of interest, what spikes did you have in your shoes, or were they spikeless?

 

[Oddsocks]

I have to echo craws post above. While however I do have sympathy for your injury and any implications that it may have caused the fact is :


YOU chose to play given the conditions
YOU walked on the ice
YOU FELL OVER

As craw said by hitting the clubs insurance, ever person using that course next year will foot ( ha ha get it foot ) the bill of you pay out plus a percentage on top.

If you felt that strong I would have negotiated a season of free golf at most which costs them nothing.

The worst bit is let's say you get £10k, how much do you actually think its going to cost the insurance company in legal fees etc, you claim of 10k could well cost in the excess of 30/40k to settle

 

[Keyser Soze]

Have to say, i don't like to see someone get injured and certainly hope you recover quickly. That said, i don't see that it's the clubs fault that you slipped over. Had this been on a pathway outside your house, would you consider suing the council?

 

[LIG]

I'm on the fence..... I don't like all the stories about people claiming for falling over a paving stone which was a millimetre out of level but accept that there are more serious events too.

My initial reaction to your post was it's your own fault, you didn't take sufficient care in conditions which an ordinary person would have.

However, if the incident was likely to have severe financial implications for me and my family - losing house etc. - then I would use the same avenue as you have. (Generally I'm "anti" this claim culture but as this route exists and only to protect my family from extreme consequences, I would make a claim.)

 

[louise_a]

Sorry you broke your ankle but by going out on the course on a frosty day surely you accepted the risks thsat it would be slippy in parts.

 

[TeeItHigh]

Sorry you were injured and hope u make a full recovery however I agree with craw that it's your own fault!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is this not a bit like someone injuring themselves whilst hill walking or mountain biking. Are they going to sue the mountain?
You knew the risk, you should have been aware of the ground conditions but you chose to play.

I really dislike this American culture which seems to think that if anything goes wrong it is never the individuals fault.

 

[chrisd]

I'm very much in agreement with Thecraw and Oddsocks. It's no one else's responsibility to decide in poor weather conditions that you are right to play or not play when the conditions are there for all to see. On a freezing day it's fairly obvious that there will be icy, slippery places and by going onto the course you personally should know and choose to accept those risks and I don't accept personally that the starter should have to tell grown men that its icy and, therefore, could be dangerous.

You would have all been peed off if the course was closed and it looked ok, and, lets face it, the club can't win in iffy conditions. As far as not claiming from the Club but their insurers - if the insurers pay out the premium the club and all its members pay out would be increased, and incidentally, all these claims add to everyones premiums in the long run.

I do hope that you recover quickly from the injury but hope that the insurers steadfastly refuse to settle your caim as the compensation culture is the road to ruin for the country!

 

[ThePhantom]

This whole american culture of compensation infuriates me! By the way, you say you're not claiming from the club but its insurers? So by your own assumption their premium wont go though the roof next year? Sad, really sad.

 

[DCB]

First time I've ever seen a post like this. Th OPs legal representative isn't going to be happy with him discussing the matter on an open forum I'd have thought.

In my view the moment the OP took to the first tee he had weighed up and accepted the risks involved in playing golf on a course in less than perfect conditions. Having accepted the risk he can't turn round and say "it wasn't my fault it was theirs !" The fact that the club didn't follow their own bad weather procedures is what the legal people will fight over. In this day and age, the claimant will probably win and the club will then be saddled with costs it didn't budget for and their insurance will rise considerably next year.

All because someone went out on a frosty morning to play golf..... nobody made him play golf.... that was his own decision.... surely he must accept that.

May sound harsh, but that's how I feel.

 

[G1BB0]

any sniff of frost in future and the course will be closed for fear of further potential claims thus ruining it for everyone else also!!

My sympathies for the injury which must have been very painful. I had an injury at work but my employer was so bloody good and sympathetic it never crossed my mind to claim. Maybe I am different. Also got rear ended last year and again didnt claim.

The trouble is nowadays with the majority financially worse off at present then any chance of a few £££ is going to be very tempting indeed

 

[USER1999]

The only time I would say the club is responsible would be if they had a ban on metal spikes, which you would have worn, and in wearing plastic ones you slipped. This would then be their fault in my view.

If you choose to play in wintry conditions, wearing plastic spikes, then it's your fault. Sorry, but it just is.

If you win this, then golf courses will only be open in the summer months. Courses are equally slippy after a bit of rain.

 

[ScienceBoy]

If you had slipped on an alternative route laid out by the club then it would have been more their fault.

I agree the club could have done more to protect its customers too. You were not forced to go out and play but you did place some trust in the club. What they should have done is seen it and provided an alternative route to go around the affected area by either closing the holes or some other method.

Hopefully the club and other golfers can learn from this, I know I certainly would make my main focus getting the club to change rather than anything financial.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Sorry no sympathy. You made the choice to play, no one forced you to go out at gun point. You knew its frosty, you should have known that frost will mean ice in places therefore if you were a silly billy who slipped on the ice then I guess that's nobody's fault bar your own. We really are becoming a chase the $$$ country as well and its sad.

All your going to do is put up the fees for next year as guess who will foot the bill for an increased insurance premium next year if the insurance company does agree to accept liability.

Other than that I wish you a speedy recovery and hope you get back onto the course soon.

I echo that sentiment. You can't have been shocked that it was icy..?

Other than that, get well soon :thup:

 

[John Boy Saint]

We teed off at the tenth and started to walk the fairway. Just then I noticed a change in state of the ground. A massive area of solid ice where undrained water had frozen over. It didn't look any different because it has a layer of frost but it was like an ice rink underfoot. The bottom line here is that I slipped and broke my ankle.

I take the view that the upper reaches of the course, which it turned out were in pretty bad condition all over, should have been closed. The clubs insurers take the view that I accepted the risks but the club haven't completed their own bad weather safety procedures.

Firstly I hope your ankle is mending well.

I work for a company that from time to time gets folks who claim for something as a result of what they did with what I sell damaging something more expensive 9 times out of 10 through their own actions.

Your claim will no doubt have repercussions into the future without a doubt. A Golf course is a massive expanse of land, in the winter the sun isn't up until gone 7, as you say it didn't look any different. The groundsman goes out has a look at the course and to his eye in all the usual tricky places it looks fine. No previous issues have arisen previously in similar conditions so nothing to stop Golf being played.

"The upper reaches were in pretty bad condition" this is a personal view or the general consensus? "Should have been Closed" this is the knife in guts, depending on your outlook on life if you get paid out you might not see the ultimate consequences of this. Next winter when the conditions are similar the club will probably not open the course despite it being perfect safe with a bit of common sense where the weather conditions are concerned. Disappointed golfers will be turned away, before your mishap you might have stood in the car park looked out across the course, and said "what a load of old cobblers that looks perfectly playable to me".
So you wander on to the next Golf Club who tell you they are closed, but they are closed simply because their neighbouring club has someone unfortunately slip on ice and claimed for compensation and won and as a result put their insurance premium up by a stratospheric amount. Etc etc.

Sometimes in life we all get a poor roll of the dice, and in reality we all should just take it on the chin unless someone has really and honestly caused something to happen without question. Someone above said talk to the club and get a years free golf, 10-15 years ago that might have easily happened, but in these days of blame and claim by even contemplating such a gesture is an "admission of guilt".

Not getting at the opening poster, just fed up with having to increasingly detour round the what if risk assessment world we now live in, especially when it pigs up my limited time social life.

 

[AmandaJR]

What Craw said...I hate this sue sue sue society we've become never mind a total lack of personal responsibility for decisions taken and the consequences.