Indyref2

[Doon frae Troon]

Pretty astute summary of the SNP's failings by Craig Murray


https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...adical-vision-not-just-managerial-competence/

 

[Hobbit]

Pretty astute summary of the SNP's failings by Craig Murray


https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...adical-vision-not-just-managerial-competence/

Some very insightful comments, although I'd argue that the SNP should have ran both the independence slant AND the managerial slant, not just independence as Murray suggests. To ignore the failings would have led to question as to why the SNP were hiding, akin to why Theresa went into hiding.

I do agree that the SNP has to be seen as something different from the run of the mill parties, or fear as suggested that they are labelled as Labour-lite.

The comment about being seen as a county council is unfair. Scottish politics is way bigger than that. And Murray was right in saying the SNP didn't promote that image well enough.

Is it time to bang the independence drum again? I actually feel that the SNP lost ground by not promoting it, and further damaged its credence by being viewed as losing so much dominance in almost every constituency.

The time to bang the drum will be when a poor Brexit deal is offered. That way the choice being tied to a diminished UK outside the EU, or as a independent nation tied to a large trading bloc. Make the choice about economic security, i.e. the very thing the last vote hung on.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think Nicola judged the mood of Scotland quite well by keeping quiet on Independence during a Westminster election.
Of course this did not play well with the diehard SNP voters, who would have expected her to bang the drum.
It also played into the hands of the four Unionist parties who, as we all know, had nothing else to offer except 'don't vote for the SNP'.

As Murray said, Independence polls still held a high support for Independence during the debates.
Whither that will drop now will remain to see.
I actually think we just may be in for bit of a surprise.

 

[Hobbit]

I think Nicola judged the mood of Scotland quite well by keeping quiet on Independence during a Westminster election.
Of course this did not play well with the diehard SNP voters, who would have expected her to bang the drum.
It also played into the hands of the four Unionist parties who, as we all know, had nothing else to offer except 'don't vote for the SNP'.

As Murray said, Independence polls still held a high support for Independence during the debates.
Whither that will drop now will remain to see.
I actually think we just may be in for bit of a surprise.

The polls I saw with a week to go had independence at 39% and 40%, depending on who you believe. (currently poll of polls sitting at 41%).

If Nicola judged things quite well why almost 500k lost votes? She was way too defensive.

Losing Angus Robertson, Mmm not overly fussed, but Alex Salmond performed magnificently at Westminster.

Still a great majority but the trend from the local elections to the GE and the polls doesn't read good at all.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The polls I saw with a week to go had independence at 39% and 40%, depending on who you believe. (currently poll of polls sitting at 41%).

If Nicola judged things quite well why almost 500k lost votes? She was way too defensive.

Losing Angus Robertson, Mmm not overly fussed, but Alex Salmond performed magnificently at Westminster.

Still a great majority but the trend from the local elections to the GE and the polls doesn't read good at all.

I think there is quite a strong percentage of natural [old] Labour/Soft Socialist voters in Scotland who support Independence.
Folk tend to just think support for Independence equates to an SNP vote. It does not.
If Corbyn ends up in control of the UK it is unlikely that Nicola will trigger Indyref2.

If we reach the Bingo situation of Trump, BoJo and the DUP running things then I think many rUK citizens will be asking to join Scotland.

Salmond is no great loss to me.
Angus and Clegg will be missed, decent guys.

 

[User62651]

Imo the independence position is significantly weaker than a week ago. The 2014 Indyref was lost, the 2016 Holyrood election saw SNP weakened by losing a majority, relying on Greens for assistance, now last weeks GE losing 21 seats to Unionist parties when they hoped for at least 40 seats. Yes they are still strong but there seems to be a trend moving away from SNP support to Unionist parties after a SNP peak between 2011 Holyrood majority and 2014 indy referendum. Historically SNP support was around 25% and I think its heading back down well below 40% from a high of 45% 3 years ago.
Nowhere left for Nicola Sturgeon to take the arguments particularly if Brexit does end up softer and with SNP arguably taking their eye off the ball with the day to day running of devolved issues in Scotland. They need to show they can run things better here first or else it plays into opposition hands. Momentum is all with Labour and moreso Conservatives, less so LibDems.

Might have it all wrong and nothing's certain these days but that's how it feels to me.

Brexit would have to go horribly wrong and perhaps Scotland's economic figures need to improve markedly through increased oil prices or some other means for another SNP surge. They are also a one-woman band with Sturgeon, apart from Swinney and my MSP Mike Russell, we rarely see or hear from anyone else. Without her they are a bit characterless. Think they miss Stewart Hosie. Folks have had enough of Salmond, was a decent first minster but too marmite for a meaningful return. Robertson could be a future party leader, young enough for a comeback but not sure he has the common touch like Ruth Davidson undoubtedly has and Salmond used to have.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/..._referendum_or_lose_top_job__Sturgeon_warned/

The Herald does not seem to understand how politics in Scotland works..........scroll down to the vote:lol:
79% in favour of Indyref2.

 

[Hobbit]

Survation/Daily Record from 5 days ago.... YES = 39% No = 53%

The highest Yes in the last month = 45% (31st May IPSOS/Mori) No = 50%

Panelbase survey 2nd June Yes = 41% No = 53%


The only time the Yes's were higher than the No's in the surveys was the 3 consecutive weeks following the Brexit vote.

Dream on, dream on...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Survation/Daily Record from 5 days ago.... YES = 39% No = 53%

The highest Yes in the last month = 45% (31st May IPSOS/Mori) No = 50%

Panelbase survey 2nd June Yes = 41% No = 53%


The only time the Yes's were higher than the No's in the surveys was the 3 consecutive weeks following the Brexit vote.

Dream on, dream on...

Steady oan.........I was not being serious............just laughing at the stupidity of The Herald to post such nonsense and then add a poll at the end of it.
Links went right round the Pro Indy sites and came back and bit them.
I would bet that tomorrows Herald headline does not say 'Our online poll states 79% support for Indyref2

 

[Hobbit]

Steady oan.........I was not being serious............just laughing at the stupidity of The Herald to post such nonsense and then add a poll at the end of it.
Links went right round the Pro Indy sites and came back and bit them.
I would bet that tomorrows Herald headline does not say 'Our online poll states 79% support for Indyref2

Neither was I. I think we've all seen enough polls in recent years/months/weeks to realise they are, at best, only a rough guide.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Neither was I. I think we've all seen enough polls in recent years/months/weeks to realise they are, at best, only a rough guide.

Oh I don't know, Prof Curtis's exit poll and Survation national polling were both spot on.
Both received a lot of head shaking when revealed.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Disgraceful scenes at Westminster today as Tory/Labour MP's walk straight in front of Ian Blackford whilst he is speaking.
You would not think that MP's would have to be lectured on simple basic manners.

Speaker gave them a right old telling off, bless him.