Indyref2

[Hobbit]

I think the SNP are doing a pretty good job of running the country. I think the Scottish public do as well as they continue to vote for them in big numbers.
The two alternative parties are so lacking in any form of intelligent life that I shudder to think what either of them would do. In the highly unlikely scenario of being elected of course.

In terms of social policies they have great messages and policies. In terms of funding them, they are turning Scotland into the Greek member of the UK. And if they do achieve independence it will start with Scotland in the same position it was at the time of Act of Union - BANKRUPT!!!

If you believe the SNP are doing a good job, cut your gullible pills

 

[ColchesterFC]

I think the SNP are doing a pretty good job of ruining the country.

I only had to change one letter to make your post more factually accurate.

It's easy to buy votes which is what the SNP are doing currently. What sort of tax rises or cuts to services would you be prepared to accept to achieve independence?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Point remains, Scotland cannot negotiate trade deals on its own......full stop

Yes I know

No matter what trade arrangements that the Scottish government might feel are best for Scotland in a post-Brexit UK - what best works for Westminster, in respect of deals and compromises, is what Scotland will get. And if a Scottish government doesn't like it then tough.

That and the prospect of a Tory majority government following the next 3 General Elections - so a Westminster Tory Government until 2035? Now that's a prospect (eeek!!)

The SNP will be out to make hay.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No I never. You suggested Scotland could make a choice on making their own trade deals while part of the UK. I said they cant.

I was talking about an Independent Scotland. Sorry - thought that was obvious.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm calling BS on that, the SNP are doing a crap job. Their only saving grace is that Labour are no longer a viable option nationally never mind in Scotland. The only alternative to the SNP in Scotland are the Torries and I've more chance of a lottery win than they have in securing power in Scotland.

I don't recall foodbanks (or as many foodbanks) when Labour took over devolved powers in Scotland.

I'll just note that there are very well used foodbanks in the generally affluent part of England where I live - and that's under a Tory government.

 

[Hobbit]

I'll just note that there are very well used foodbanks in the generally affluent part of England where I live - and that's under a Tory government.

Two wrongs don't make a right

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Two wrongs don't make a right

Absolutely - but foodbank in Scotland does not mean that SNP are doing any worse than any other party would do. Foodbanks are UK-wide - not just for an SNP government Scotland

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I was talking about an Independent Scotland. Sorry - thought that was obvious.

Sorry SILH, not obvious at all, and the fact you finished it saying "or should they accept what Westminster negotiate" further muddies the water.

On this note, why do you think Scotland (either independent or within the UK) would be able to negotiate better trade deals, compared to what "Westminster" could. (by the way, it would make you seem a lot less biased/partisan if you just referred to the UK government, rather than trying to drive the Scotland v Westminster wedge)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry SILH, not obvious at all, and the fact you finished it saying "or should they accept what Westminster negotiate" further muddies the water.

On this note, why do you think Scotland (either independent or within the UK) would be able to negotiate better trade deals, compared to what "Westminster" could. (by the way, it would make you seem a lot less biased/partisan if you just referred to the UK government, rather than trying to drive the Scotland v Westminster wedge)

I'm not saying an independent Scotland would. But the SNP will claim that it could; that the UK being out of the Single Market and Customs Union will be damaging to Scotland, and that Scotland will will be stuck with whatever the Westminster government decides for the UK. The prospect of a majority Tory government until 2035 will be used by the SNP to compound that 'issue'. Anyway - we'll see.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry SILH, not obvious at all, and the fact you finished it saying "or should they accept what Westminster negotiate" further muddies the water.

On this note, why do you think Scotland (either independent or within the UK) would be able to negotiate better trade deals, compared to what "Westminster" could. (by the way, it would make you seem a lot less biased/partisan if you just referred to the UK government, rather than trying to drive the Scotland v Westminster wedge)

Well - that's how easy it is to misconstrue words. I didn't actually suggest in any way that Scotland might be able to do trade deals whilst part of the UK.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Sorry SILH, not obvious at all, and the fact you finished it saying "or should they accept what Westminster negotiate" further muddies the water.

On this note, why do you think Scotland (either independent or within the UK) would be able to negotiate better trade deals, compared to what "Westminster" could. (by the way, it would make you seem a lot less biased/partisan if you just referred to the UK government, rather than trying to drive the Scotland v Westminster wedge)

hmmm ''Westminster'' vs ''despicable fish woman''.........I'm calling double standards on that one.

Do you know how much time the deputy speaker allocated to the 57 SNP MP's on the recent A50 debate in the ''UK'' governments home ?
If you do you will then probably understand why many Scots refer to it as ''Westminster''.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In terms of social policies they have great messages and policies. In terms of funding them, they are turning Scotland into the Greek member of the UK. And if they do achieve independence it will start with Scotland in the same position it was at the time of Act of Union - BANKRUPT!!!

If you believe the SNP are doing a good job, cut your gullible pills

Have you ever wondered why we have GERW and GERS but no GERE ?
Someone must have an explanation for that ?

BTW as I keep saying they have a fixed allowance from Westminster so they cannot 'overspend'.
Mind you most of that allowance is used to pay off the massive debt that decades of Westminster parties has built up.
Decades that Scotland has not received it's fair share of funding and has not had any say in the matter.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry SILH, not obvious at all, and the fact you finished it saying "or should they accept what Westminster negotiate" further muddies the water.

On this note, why do you think Scotland (either independent or within the UK) would be able to negotiate better trade deals, compared to what "Westminster" could. (by the way, it would make you seem a lot less biased/partisan if you just referred to the UK government, rather than trying to drive the Scotland v Westminster wedge)

Scots have two parliaments and governments - that's why I refer to the UK Government as Westminster - and the Scottish Government as Holyrood. Nothing to do with 'bias'.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I'm not saying an independent Scotland would. But the SNP will claim that it could; that the UK being out of the Single Market and Customs Union will be damaging to Scotland, and that Scotland will will be stuck with whatever the Westminster government decides for the UK. The prospect of a majority Tory government until 2035 will be used by the SNP to compound that 'issue'. Anyway - we'll see.

OK I understand that, but do you think they would ever be able to negotiate better, from a much much smaller country? As if not, you must accept they are talking rubbish.

hmmm ''Westminster'' vs ''despicable fish woman''.........I'm calling double standards on that one.

Do you know how much time the deputy speaker allocated to the 57 SNP MP's on the recent A50 debate in the ''UK'' governments home ?
If you do you will then probably understand why many Scots refer to it as ''Westminster''.

Happily have never referred to her in that way, so I don't mind pointing it out.
I don't know actually, how much was it? And how much time was allocated to the other parties? If the SNP MP's were allocated disproportionately less time, do we know why (other than conspiracy theories)

Scots have two parliaments and governments - that's why I refer to the UK Government as Westminster - and the Scottish Government as Holyrood. Nothing to do with 'bias'.

But it is an inherent bias at the very least, if not deliberate, as you tend to use (it appears, even if not mean) Westminster in negative sense.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

OK I understand that, but do you think they would ever be able to negotiate better, from a much much smaller country? As if not, you must accept they are talking rubbish.



Happily have never referred to her in that way, so I don't mind pointing it out.
I don't know actually, how much was it? And how much time was allocated to the other parties? If the SNP MP's were allocated disproportionately less time, do we know why (other than conspiracy theories)






But it is an inherent bias at the very least, if not deliberate, as you tend to use (it appears, even if not mean) Westminster in negative sense.

Doesn't matter what I believe about trade deals an independent Scotland could strike - the SNP will say a Scottish Government (Holyrood) could strike better deals than the UK Government (Westminster), simply on the grounds that exiting the SM and CU will be damaging to the UK economy - and by extension the Scottish economy.

And though others from north of border may well disagree - my feeling is that the UK government tends to be referred to as Westminster by many if not most Scots. Certainly in my experience it is.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Doesn't matter what I believe about trade deals an independent Scotland could strike - the SNP will say a Scottish Government (Holyrood) could strike better deals than the UK Government (Westminster), simply on the grounds that exiting the SM and CU will be damaging to the UK economy - and by extension the Scottish economy.

And though others from north of border may well disagree - my feeling is that the UK government tends to be referred to as Westminster by many if not most Scots. Certainly in my experience it is.

And if the SNP do say that, what would be your opinion on this? Would you agree, or criticise them as much as you do (at times) the UK gov?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...nce-bill/ar-AAnk64n?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

First SNP private members bill set to go through despite the dreadful efforts of this Tory low life.

 

[lobthewedge]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...nce-bill/ar-AAnk64n?li=AA59G2&ocid=spartandhp

First SNP private members bill set to go through despite the dreadful efforts of this Tory low life.

Struggling to see what this numpty yittering on for 90 minutes has to do with the possibility of a 2nd referendum on scottish independance?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Struggling to see what this numpty yittering on for 90 minutes has to do with the possibility of a 2nd referendum on scottish independance?

I'm sure that the despicable fish woman and the SNP will find a way to make it a significant factor in Scottish independence.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Struggling to see what this numpty yittering on for 90 minutes has to do with the possibility of a 2nd referendum on scottish independance?

Once again it shows the arrogance of Westminster MP's towards the SNP elected members.

I doubt that any normal thinking person would disagree with this private members bill.
It has a lot of support and should have been nodded through......... not fought against just for the sake of 'politics'.