Immigration good or bad

[SocketRocket]

Couple of points.
Is it not the case that immigration and emigration into and out of the UK nearly balance out.

No thats not the case, its nothing like the case. How do you think the population has grown so mush in the last ten years. Look at this graph.



If you think about an average sized town of 30,000 people then multiply that by eight. We have experienced net migration of that amount year on year.

 

[Tashyboy]

Well here goes,
last November I had a large ankle operation performed by a nice Asian chappie, my teeth get sorted by a nice polish chappie (but doesn't get a Christmas card coz he hurts me). Me Bessie mate is a mixed race Jamaican gay lad. Etc etc. All these people though not Anglo Saxons have enhanced my life. I am no different to many millions of other British citizens.

my problem begins when we allow literally anyone into Britain that des not enhance this country. Eg why do I get served a happy meal in Mcdonalds by a foreign national. 1, it is still the same price, no cheaper. 2, that means a British national is to lazy to do a minimum wage job so is happy to get by on benefits.

for me the problem of immigration and benefits go hand in hand. It is as obvious as the link between drugs and crime which politicians dismissed for years and years.

i have 3adult children, one is a copper in Sheffield Central, she has a one year old son and the stories she tells me about immigrants and crime make my toes curl. My middle lad is a lorry driver and my youngest daughter who is 20 yr old and has a 9 month old boy. She lives in a council house and all her benifits are paid for by us. Every thing that she has is paid for by us. Her mother rang a couple of months ago, but she could not answer the phone because she was has sky tv installed! paid for by us. Her actions and attitude have upset both my and my wife's families more than words can say. Looking at her friends, they share the same principals as her.
What I cannot get my head around is that we have just come out of a double dip recession where thousands and thousands of families have suffered massive hardship and yet benefits have hardly been touched. There have been token gestures, but stories of benefit and immigrant families wanting bigger houses just stick in my throat.

having seen my daughters attitude first hand, if benefit claimants are able to get by day to day without having the hunger for work then immigration will fill the jobs.

there has been much discussed already about Bulgarians and Romanians joining the EU and being able to come to the UK, but my eye is on events happening in the Ukraine. If they join the EU then I feel we will be royally screwed.

my other grief is membership of the EU. What do I actually get out of it I mean I really do need someone to point it out coz am 50 yr old and don't have a clue. So much so ave started a "Membership of the EU good or bad" topic.

so yeah for me immigration is both good and bad, but the bottom line for me is that the bad is starting to outweigh the good.

 

[drawboy]

There is no doubt in my mind that our top politiciana of all persuasions are being given massive bungs from other countries to take these people into the country. You only have to see the massive influx of African people into the country from places we have no ties to such as the Congo. Why else would our own politicians undermine their own country. Surely they must be lining their own pockets out of this. Middle class England may not see the problems when they ride around in their Land Rovers back to their middle income suberban homes and close the curtains until they go back to the office but believe me for the rest of us who have to live in the inner cities mass immigration is very very evident.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Well here goes,
last November I had a large ankle operation performed by a nice Asian chappie, my teeth get sorted by a nice polish chappie (but doesn't get a Christmas card coz he hurts me). Me Bessie mate is a mixed race Jamaican gay lad. Etc etc. All these people though not Anglo Saxons have enhanced my life. I am no different to many millions of other British citizens.

my problem begins when we allow literally anyone into Britain that des not enhance this country. Eg why do I get served a happy meal in Mcdonalds by a foreign national. 1, it is still the same price, no cheaper. 2, that means a British national is to lazy to do a minimum wage job so is happy to get by on benefits.

for me the problem of immigration and benefits go hand in hand. It is as obvious as the link between drugs and crime which politicians dismissed for years and years.

i have 3adult children, one is a copper in Sheffield Central, she has a one year old son and the stories she tells me about immigrants and crime make my toes curl. My middle lad is a lorry driver and my youngest daughter who is 20 yr old and has a 9 month old boy. She lives in a council house and all her benifits are paid for by us. Every thing that she has is paid for by us. Her mother rang a couple of months ago, but she could not answer the phone because she was has sky tv installed! paid for by us. Her actions and attitude have upset both my and my wife's families more than words can say. Looking at her friends, they share the same principals as her.
What I cannot get my head around is that we have just come out of a double dip recession where thousands and thousands of families have suffered massive hardship and yet benefits have hardly been touched. There have been token gestures, but stories of benefit and immigrant families wanting bigger houses just stick in my throat.

having seen my daughters attitude first hand, if benefit claimants are able to get by day to day without having the hunger for work then immigration will fill the jobs.

there has been much discussed already about Bulgarians and Romanians joining the EU and being able to come to the UK, but my eye is on events happening in the Ukraine. If they join the EU then I feel we will be royally screwed.

my other grief is membership of the EU. What do I actually get out of it I mean I really do need someone to point it out coz am 50 yr old and don't have a clue. So much so ave started a "Membership of the EU good or bad" topic.

so yeah for me immigration is both good and bad, but the bottom line for me is that the bad is starting to outweigh the good.

Good post mate, pretty much sums up the current situation.

The bit I don't understand though is why we have to bring in doctors, dentists etc when we have a perfectly good infrastructure in place to train our own. I'm sure Asian doctors are required more in their home countries than they are in the UK.

 

[Sharktooth]

Good post mate, pretty much sums up the current situation.

The bit I don't understand though is why we have to bring in doctors, dentists etc when we have a perfectly good infrastructure in place to train our own. I'm sure Asian doctors are required more in their home countries than they are in the UK.

I think the pay and conditions are a trifle better for Asian Doctors working in the UK than they are in Asia, unless they are from Hong Kong or Singapore.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think the pay and conditions are a trifle better for Asian Doctors working in the UK than they are in Asia, unless they are from Hong Kong or Singapore.

The point is that we can train them ourselves. If Countries like India spend money on training Doctors, Nurses etc then they should be getting the benefit of their investment. Not us.

We hear a great deal of European immigration of which we have no real power to control. The greatest number come from countries like China, Africa, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, these are countries we do have the power to limit but we don't.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why would we want to limit those people arriving if they contribute to society ?

 

[Tashyboy]

Not going off on tangents but I have some really good friends who live north of Milan Italy and every time we see them we get the same/similar argument. However they insist that Italian immigration is worse than ours due to the influx of European and African immigrants. Me point is am not to sure it's just a British problem.

how do you tackle the problem/issue ? there must be an answer.

read earlier on that we are billions of pounds behind in money paid out to EU and what we have got back. I would not mind if I thought it was being well spent on poorer countries which have joined the EU. But again is it money well spent?

 

[stevelev]

I think we need to look at the likes of Australia for inspiration and guidance. Every person entering even on holiday needs to be able to support themsleves or have sponsors who can do it for them. If they are iffy, dont let them in.

Also a quicker processing of asylum cases and if rrjected send straight bsck, whilst being processed hold in custody. After all if they are genuine and need protection where better than a secure environment. Also zero benefits for the first 3 years on entry and if they cant support there selves for that length of time stay where you're coming from.

How many other countries are such soft touches as the UK. Maybe instead of giving the decision to parliment they should give it a national vote to UK nationals

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Why would we want to limit those people arriving if they contribute to society ?

That is a valid question but the point is they have been trained in poor countries that really need them but they come over here for better wages even though we churn out a large number of British doctors/dentists every year through our medical colleges. They have skills that are not in shortage. I know plenty of nurses as well (my ex wife) who can't get jobs because our hospitals are flooded with foreign nurses.

Yes, they are working hard, paying taxes and contributing to society but we don't actually need them. Their own countries, which are poorer than us, do need them. I think it's morally wrong that we allow them to work here.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So should that mean that our docs and nurses shouldn't be allowed to work outside the country ?

If we start denying skilled professionals the opportunity to work in our country then we start closing ourselves of to the world

If two people go for a job it should gonto who is best for that job as opposed to where they come from.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

No of course not, they should be allowed to work abroad if they so choose. But do you think it's morally right for a poor country to spend a lot of money training doctors only for them to come over here because they can earn more? And going back to the original theme of this thread, they are immigrants taking jobs that British people are trained and qualified to perform.

 

[SocketRocket]

So should that mean that our docs and nurses shouldn't be allowed to work outside the country ?

If we start denying skilled professionals the opportunity to work in our country then we start closing ourselves of to the world

If two people go for a job it should gonto who is best for that job as opposed to where they come from.

I would say that if someone is trained as a Doctor or Nurse etc at Public expense they should work a minimum number of years to repay the debt or repay the training costs.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No of course not, they should be allowed to work abroad if they so choose. But do you think it's morally right for a poor country to spend a lot of money training doctors only for them to come over here because they can earn more? And going back to the original theme of this thread, they are immigrants taking jobs that British people are trained and qualified to perform.

I don't think it's wrong for people to want to further themselves and go to where they can earn the most for themselves. Do we not also do the same ?

And taking people's jobs ? Surely the jobs are going to best candidate ?

The jobs are for anyone who is qualified and able to work in this country

It's not a British job for British people society

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would say that if someone is trained as a Doctor or Nurse etc at Public expense they should work a minimum number of years to repay the debt or repay the training costs.

They already do - most junior doctors work in hospitals doing very long hours for little pay

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I don't think it's wrong for people to want to further themselves and go to where they can earn the most for themselves. Do we not also do the same ?

And taking people's jobs ? Surely the jobs are going to best candidate ?

The jobs are for anyone who is qualified and able to work in this country

It's not a British job for British people society

That's fine if you see it that way, I disagree with your views.

Just wonder if you would feel the same if you had trained for 8-10 years then couldn't get a job

 

[upsidedown]

To emigrate to NZ we had to have a skill to offer and one that they needed/wanted. These skills change every year to match the countries needs.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's fine if you see it that way, I disagree with your views.

Just wonder if you would feel the same if you had trained for 8-10 years then couldn't get a job

So do you think the job should go to the British first or the best ?

Should immigrants not get the job until all the Brits have a job regardless of ability ?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

So do you think the job should go to the British first or the best ?

Should immigrants not get the job until all the Brits have a job regardless of ability ?

I say we should protect the interests of our own citizens first, just like NZ, Oz, Canada etc

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I say we should protect the interests of our own citizens first, just like NZ, Oz, Canada etc

So you would want a Brit over a better non Brit ?

I would actually prefer to have the best person possible doing the job

Even in Canada etc they employ the best people regardless of where they come from

I know if I needed an op I would prefer to have the best doctor operating regardless of where they come from

So question - 1 job - two candidates 1 from UK and 1 Immigrant - who should get the job ?