I’m Done

[PNWokingham]

All these things we should get back to has been eroded over years of cut backs and reducing numbers, we’ll never get back to the era you’re dreaming about.

I absolutely 100% support the Police, worked intimately with them in many roles over the years and still have many serving friends.

You need to invest in them, give them the equipment, the job security, make them feel valued and most importantly of all provide strong robust leadership.

We shouldn’t accept people making mistakes, it can at the extremes cost lives, what shouldn’t happen is assume guilt, mistakes should be reviewed and lessons learnt.

As for “bad people are bad people” no they’re not, they become bad people, they are not born “bad” they are a product and a reflection of the society and culture they come from.

Respect is not given, it has to be earned.

Resourcing is one issue granted - but less of an issue than all the beaurocracy and rules thrown at police and others that take up a large part of their time and. Cut back on all the unnecesssary rules and empower them to do their day job and hence more police on the streets. Same in the NHS etc. This will go a long way to making them feel valued.

Your bad people comment is nothing to do with what i said so no comment

Agree with respect comment but again not really related to what i was saying. Respect has gone through the all the things mentioned - today's world shines a big torch on any transgressions or bad behaviour and pays no attention to the 99% of good that is done in any field. All the protest generation are interested in is trashing the majority through the incidents of the very small minority

 

[Ethan]

I think sometimes people believe what they see as anarchistic views are formed out of thin air when they’re often formed from experience.

In the job I do, clinical (trial) development, I encourage people in my team to always tell me if they think some element of the programme is not as good as it can be. And they often do, because this stuff is complicated. I encourage constructive criticism and have scrapped studies and redesigned them following such input. I am always suspicious of organisations and institutions that cannot accept valid criticism.

 

[Robster59]

I think sometimes people believe what they see as anarchistic views are formed out of thin air when they’re often formed from experience.

I had a life of hell from one of my teachers in Secondary school. He carried on as a teacher but has since been found guilty of abuse of young boys. Do I assume all teachers are illegitimates? No. He was a bad apple.
I too am a (lapsed) Catholic and am well aware of the way that institution has really blackened itself now with everything it has done to hide abuses, and it's archaic stance on contraception and marriage for priests. I agree that unless changes are made then my opinion of them will also be blackened.
But Police are looked upon as a someone to blame for enforcing the laws of the country on people who believe the laws don't apply to them. Whether that be burglars, lockdown breakers, drink drivers, speeding drivers, illegal gatherings.
They don't make the rules but they have to enforce them and get the blame for doing so. Perhaps if people obeyed the laws of the land a little more, then we would not be in this situation.

 

[SaintHacker]

I had a life of hell from one of my teachers in Secondary school. He carried on as a teacher but has since been found guilty of abuse of young boys. Do I assume all teachers are illegitimates? No. He was a bad apple.
I too am a (lapsed) Catholic and am well aware of the way that institution has really blackened itself now with everything it has done to hide abuses, and it's archaic stance on contraception and marriage for priests. I agree that unless changes are made then my opinion of them will also be blackened.
But Police are looked upon as a someone to blame for enforcing the laws of the country on people who believe the laws don't apply to them. Whether that be burglars, lockdown breakers, drink drivers, speeding drivers, illegal gatherings.
They don't make the rules but they have to enforce them and get the blame for doing so. Perhaps if people obeyed the laws of the land a little more, then we would not be in this situation.

Exactly. There is a huge difference in questioning authority and sticking two fingers up at it as it doesn't suit your personal agenda

 

[Kellfire]

Exactly. There is a huge difference in questioning authority and sticking two fingers up at it as it doesn't suit your personal agenda

Most people will work towards their own agenda though. That may or may not be in line with the authoritarian view but that’s not the same as saying the person is acting that way just to be disruptive; they’ll almost certainly have what they consider a good reason for that.

 

[SaintHacker]

A good reason? So that's OK then, we can all go out, break the law of the land, put other peoples health at risk etc just because we think we have a good reason to do it.

 

[Kellfire]

A good reason? So that's OK then, we can all go out, break the law of the land, put other peoples health at risk etc just because we think we have a good reason to do it.

Can you honestly not think of anything that needed illegal protests to make a positive change in the world? I’m not saying it’s an ideal or that people should protest for any old cause but sometimes laws have been broken and the world has been a better place for it.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I wonder what the ratio of police who “go rogue” is compared to those in the medical profsession?
I can’t help but wonder how those saying Sarah Everard is an indication of institutional police abuse can say that when they completely ignore the nurses done for patient abuse, child murder, social care staff done for abuse etc.
Every job will have a very small number that “go rogue”. That doesn’t mean everyone in that profession of job is the same.

 

[PNWokingham]

Can you honestly not think of anything that needed illegal protests to make a positive change in the world? I’m not saying it’s an ideal or that people should protest for any old cause but sometimes laws have been broken and the world has been a better place for it.

the right to protest is a valid freedom we have - the right to protest against the law (covid in this case), cause criminal damage, vandalise or tear down statues - and cause mass diruption to the rest of society to go about their daily lives by blocking off public routes etc is not acceptable in any way

 

[Kellfire]

the right to protest is a valid freedom we have - the right to protest against the law (covid in this case), cause criminal damage, vandalise or tear down statues - and cause mass diruption to the rest of society to go about their daily lives by blocking off public routes etc is not acceptable in any way

That’s not an answer to my question. Think about the suffragette movements, race riots, resistance to apartheid. All had illegal components to their causes. All definitely worthy of protest.

 

[PNWokingham]

That’s not an answer to my question. Think about the suffragette movements, race riots, resistance to apartheid. All had illegal components to their causes. All definitely worthy of protest.

fair point on those - but all of their time causes that had widespread and likely majority of the population support. Name one current illegal issue that deserves similar treatment and would have similar levels of public support?

 

[Kellfire]

fair point on those - but all of their time causes that had widespread and likely majority of the population support. Name one current illegal issue that deserves similar treatment and would have similar levels of public support?

Nothing on that level, no. But I disagree on the notion that it needs to be a majority of support. The simple truth is that people tend to be ambivalent or dismissive of things that don’t directly affect them. I will never understand how black people feel RE the BLM movement. I’ll never understand how women feel regarding the recent push for safety for women. But I listen to their arguments and in both cases I can see why they have turned to illegal protests at times to further their point.

 

[Robster59]

Nothing on that level, no. But I disagree on the notion that it needs to be a majority of support. The simple truth is that people tend to be ambivalent or dismissive of things that don’t directly affect them. I will never understand how black people feel RE the BLM movement. I’ll never understand how women feel regarding the recent push for safety for women. But I listen to their arguments and in both cases I can see why they have turned to illegal protests at times to further their point.

The trouble is those kind of protests also alienate them from a lot of people. Like you, I am not in a position to be able experience what they have been through. The problem is that these kind of protests nowadays seem to be hijacked by other people. Like the anti-lockdown protestors the other night. Or the people who use protests as a means to vandalise and loot. And then the Police have to face these people as well as the original protestors. In the middle of all that, how are you supposed to differentiate one from the other? The woman with the red hair as a prime example clearly had her own agenda.
But who gets it in the neck? The Police.

 

[PNWokingham]

Nothing on that level, no. But I disagree on the notion that it needs to be a majority of support. The simple truth is that people tend to be ambivalent or dismissive of things that don’t directly affect them. I will never understand how black people feel RE the BLM movement. I’ll never understand how women feel regarding the recent push for safety for women. But I listen to their arguments and in both cases I can see why they have turned to illegal protests at times to further their point.

and another difference is that at the time of those movements we had no internet and cocial media and all the influence that brings. Anyone wanting to change things can get a massive following here that could previously only happen by protests. But there is no excuse for the way protests have gone by the likes of BLM, extinction Rebellion etc, which are as much anarchistic movements than what they they are publicly advocating

 

[Robster59]

In your opinion but you’re resorting to personal insults and I’m not.

Except against the Police Officer who wrote the original article.

 

[Kellfire]

Except against the Police Officer who wrote the original article.

There’s a difference between offering an opinion on an abstract person with no direct personal interaction with myself and you going off topic just to insult my opinion without offering anything to the topic at hand.

 

[Smiffy]

There’s a difference between offering an opinion on an abstract person with no direct personal interaction with myself and you going off topic just to insult my opinion without offering anything to the topic at hand.

Correct. The copper concerned can't respond and tell you to do one.

 

[Kellfire]

Correct. The copper concerned can't respond and tell you to do one.

You know when people post that McIlroy is a choke merchant and his short game is pathetic... do you think most people who say that on here would do that to his face? Let’s not be hypocritical here.

 

[Bdill93]

Well this thread is going OFF

 

[Smiffy]

You know when people post that McIlroy is a choke merchant and his short game is pathetic... do you think most people who say that on here would do that to his face? Let’s not be hypocritical here.

There is a big difference in stating that McIlroy has a bad short game to stating that a copper doesn't have a grasp on reality.
Are you for real????
??????