How to use the wrists in the golfswing.

[JustOne]

Lots to cover in that post Foxy, but let's start with Hogan (from your link).... Hogan had the hooks!.... but what does that mean? Well by definition of the ballflight laws it MUST be that his path was too far to the right of the clubface so either his path was to in-to-out OR the clubface was too square/closed. So all that 'rolling' that he aspired too was losing him control of the face... so he made a change (weakened his left grip) to STOP himself from rolling or 'turning the club over'. His swing was literally a bag of faults..... or fixes whichever way you want to look at it (weak left grip/foot pulled back/elbows turned inside out and tied together with string! etc etc)... but for him it got the job done no worries, it stopped his ability to ROLL the clubface closed. Perhaps it was the curse of a one plane/flat swing? who knows..



Back to the Bubba example... he's holding onto the club (as I described in a previous post) yes the clubface has rolled over but not through impact, he doesn't/didn't manipulate the clubface to hit the hook, the swingpath did that after which the club was travelling away from him so violently you HAVE to save your arms from injury by pulling the club round....

Here's a pic of Bubba's amazing hook... probably won't help, but I made it any way...

The left pic is Bubba's [ahem!] normal plane and path.

The middle pic shows his new path which is lined up very much to the left (laid over the normal plane pic)

The right pic shows how the follow through path gets 'chopped' as the hands pull the club back around the body.... this would be the part late on in his swing where you say he 'rolls' his arms... he does.. he has to, it's nothing to do with hitting the ball though, that part has long been taken care of.




I'm sure you can dig up lots of examples where people have said that you roll your wrists... I can find tons of it on Youtube so this conversation can go on and on and on. I feel I've made my point that you don't need to roll your wrists to hit any shot so it shouldn't be thought of as part of the swing... what happens through the ball is purely a result of what you did on the way down. if you don't roll the face open on the way back you don't need to roll it back again on the way down - simples.

I do have some video stuff (off the tele) that I might upload one day which shows various players hitting hooks and the commentator saying "He's closed the face and rolled the hands over to hit that"... then when you see the slow motion you can see the face is WIDE OPEN on the follow through :thup: and we're not talking 28 h/cap commentators either.

 

[Foxholer]

JO. I keep saying that we (you and I) are in agreement.

It's only the unqualified (not as in exams btw) statement that 'rolling the is a no-go for any golf shot' that is wrong imo. I believe there have been enough examples that show wrists being 'rolled' to confirm my opinion. Certainly undesireable (imo) beore impact, but that wasn't what SR's stated.

 

[SocketRocket]

JO. I keep saying that we (you and I) are in agreement.

It's only the unqualified (not as in exams btw) statement that 'rolling the is a no-go for any golf shot' that is wrong imo. I believe there have been enough examples that show wrists being 'rolled' to confirm my opinion. Certainly undesireable (imo) beore impact, but that wasn't what SR's stated.

Its a bit of a waste of time trying to debate this with you. You have a habit of picking out semantics and irrelevances then going completely off subject.

YOU KNOW fair well when I said that turning or rolling the wrists was a no go in the golf swing that I was referring to what happened up to the point of impact, it's too obvious to state that if you do it after impact it will not affect the ball flight. You have shown a number of videos that rather than disprove my theory it supported it. You have thrown in things to do with lifting the head and rolling the wrists which were also flawed. You have used the argument that the wrists cannot turn and that its the forearms.

It seems to me that you are a person who is making arguments just for the sake of it, or maybe you have some kind of inferiority complex on golfing matters. No need as JO and I have not been trying to discredit you, we have just been trying to answer the number of spanners tossed into the proverbial works.

So Foxy, I wait with bated breath on where you would like to take this journey next.

 

[sawtooth]

JO. I keep saying that we (you and I) are in agreement.

It's only the unqualified (not as in exams btw) statement that 'rolling the is a no-go for any golf shot' that is wrong imo. I believe there have been enough examples that show wrists being 'rolled' to confirm my opinion. Certainly undesireable (imo) beore impact, but that wasn't what SR's stated.

I find it difficult to believe that plenty of pros roll their wrists on purpose. I would like to read about this, where can I look this up?

 

[DaveM]

Been reading this thread with interest and amusement. Rolling wrists/ arms or what ever you want to call it. is a no no in the backswing and downswing. After impact who the hell cares what you do. Its of no consequence

 

[SocketRocket]

Been reading this thread with interest and amusement. Rolling wrists/ arms or what ever you want to call it. is a no no in the backswing and downswing. After impact who the hell cares what you do. Its of no consequence

Exactly.

 

[JustOne]

Been reading this thread with interest and amusement. Rolling wrists/ arms or what ever you want to call it. is a no no in the backswing and downswing. After impact who the hell cares what you do. Its of no consequence

I don't think it's as simple as saying it doesn't matter after impact as you shouldn't go into the downswing with the INTENTION of rolling your wrists as it's practically impossible to time.

If anything happens at all I'd suggest it's when the arms naturally 'collect' the club as it comes around the body in the LATE follow through (once the shoulders stop turning).

 

[Foxholer]

YOU KNOW fair well when I said that turning or rolling the wrists was a no go in the golf swing that I was referring to what happened up to the point of impact, it's too obvious to state that if you do it after impact it will not affect the ball flight.

Your 'No-Go' statement was quite emphatic, whether deliberately or not, So nothing in that ststament allowed me to make that interpretation.

And by your emphatic agreement with DaveM's qualification, the implication is that it's OK, if perhaps undesirable, to roll one wrist over the other after impact.

And a simple yes/no answer will suffice.

 

[SGC001]

It's a good book but was based much on what was going around in the 1960's

They did examine this area and devoted a chapter or 2 to it. They have some intersting diagrams on how they believe a swing would look without wrist roll or some of the other movements. They talk of greater and lesser roll and use relatively strong language for scientists like indescribable anatomical complications or as near as a human being can possiby come to that of the ideal machine.

 

[SocketRocket]

Your 'No-Go' statement was quite emphatic, whether deliberately or not, So nothing in that ststament allowed me to make that interpretation.

And by your emphatic agreement with DaveM's qualification, the implication is that it's OK, if perhaps undesirable, to roll one wrist over the other after impact.

And a simple yes/no answer will suffice.

As you are not much of a Yes/No person then I don't see why you expect me to be.

Of course it matters not a hoot technically what happens after the ball has left the clubface. If you did a triple pirouette and stuffed the club into your ear-hole the ball flight would not change.

NOW!! What I do think is that if you have made a good swing into impact with the club square to the swingpath, the core rotating and the club releasing on into the follow through without unnecessary manipulation, then there will be no need at all to turn the wrists over, the momentum will be naturally taken up by the re-hinging of the wrists in a upward direction keeping the clubface still square.

I would guess that even someone who has a tendency to err (how can I put it) on the 'nit picking' side of discussion would agree with that. Or maybe, true to form you will find some minor (dare I suggest daft) semantic error.

 

[Foxholer]

Of course it matters not a hoot technically what happens after the ball has left the clubface. If you did a triple pirouette and stuffed the club into your ear-hole the ball flight would not change.

NOW!! What I do think is that if you have made a good swing into impact with the club square to the swingpath, the core rotating and the club releasing on into the follow through without unnecessary manipulation, then there will be no need at all to turn the wrists over, the momentum will be naturally taken up by the re-hinging of the wrists in a upward direction keeping the clubface still square.

Ok. You've changed from NO-GO to No need. That's sufficient admission for me. And yes, there are several issues that a pedant such as me could point out but let's 'put this one to bed'.

One last( entertaining as it demonstrates both your first para and JO(I believe) and my opinion)! vid about scary post-impact manipulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91acJP66C0

 

[SocketRocket]

One last( entertaining as it demonstrates both your first para and JO(I believe) and my opinion)! vid about scary post-impact manipulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91acJP66C0

Re: the Vid:
He has the pirouette off to a tee but he's not so good at getting it into his ear. I am sure Bob could come up with a Prototype 'V' Easy that would assist there.

 

[JustOne]

The V-Earsy?





I'll get ma coat...................

 

[SocketRocket]

The V-Earsy?


I'll get ma coat...................

:clap:

 

[SoapbarSE]

Hi all, I'm new to these forums but just wanted to post to say thanks for the helpful posts in this forum. I got the golf bug last summer and have been studying/working at the game ever since.

I have used a couple of great drills from "How to win the three games of golf" to get the correct shoulder/hip pivot and arm position in the swing, and my consistency improved, taking my best score to 88.

This thread has shown to me a big area of the swing that I have overlooked/mis-understood. I have been rolling my wrists in the backswing, opening my clubface, causing me to either slice right or pull to the left (rolling quickly at impact to compensate). I got a swinggyde yesterday and I couldn't get it in the right positions very easily, particulary when the club was hip high (where I've been rolling my wrist, opening face). After having read through this the penny has dropped - I need to train just to rotate shoulders/arms and then HINGE my wrists UP (not ROLL them OPEN)!

So thanks SocketRocket, JustOne, sawtooth, your posts have really improved and changed my understanding of my golf swing. I set myself the challenge to par my local course within a year, this can only bring me closer

Sam

 

[SocketRocket]

Hi all, I'm new to these forums but just wanted to post to say thanks for the helpful posts in this forum. I got the golf bug last summer and have been studying/working at the game ever since.

I have used a couple of great drills from "How to win the three games of golf" to get the correct shoulder/hip pivot and arm position in the swing, and my consistency improved, taking my best score to 88.

This thread has shown to me a big area of the swing that I have overlooked/mis-understood. I have been rolling my wrists in the backswing, opening my clubface, causing me to either slice right or pull to the left (rolling quickly at impact to compensate). I got a swinggyde yesterday and I couldn't get it in the right positions very easily, particulary when the club was hip high (where I've been rolling my wrist, opening face). After having read through this the penny has dropped - I need to train just to rotate shoulders/arms and then HINGE my wrists UP (not ROLL them OPEN)!

So thanks SocketRocket, JustOne, sawtooth, your posts have really improved and changed my understanding of my golf swing. I set myself the challenge to par my local course within a year, this can only bring me closer

Sam

Cheers Sam. Welcome to the Asylum.

Glad to hear we have been of some help, it sounds like you have picked up on an important part of the golf swing that should help with you achieving your goal. Good luck :thup:

 

[One Planer]

Gentlemen (..... and Ladies)

Does the timing of the release differ as the club gets longer and the ball position moves forward?

 

[DaveM]

Maybe not much help! But found its one of those things that just happen. If I try to think about it alsorts go wrong. But I guess to put it in prospective. It takes a milli-second to happen, far quicker than you can think what to do.

 

[One Planer]

Maybe not much help! But found its one of those things that just happen. If I try to think about it alsorts go wrong. But I guess to put it in prospective. It takes a milli-second to happen, far quicker than you can think what to do.

Very true Dave

I "think" I'm not allowing my wrists to un-hinge and holding the face slightly open through impact.

Just a question I thought I'd pose on the thread topic as it seemed relevant.

 

[SocketRocket]

Very true Dave

I "think" I'm not allowing my wrists to un-hinge and holding the face slightly open through impact.

Just a question I thought I'd pose on the thread topic as it seemed relevant.

Try not to hold onto the lag with your wrists, this can create the shot you mentioned due to keeping the clubface open.. Think of your wrists more as oiled hinges that release on their own due to your body rotation. Also feel the butt end of the shaft points in towards your core (or only slightly ahead of it) at impact, If it leans too far forward you will have problems making a good hit.