ForeRighty
Head Pro
Really
How to break 85 - 3 goal method
- Thread starter matt611
- Start date
Really
scottbrown
Head Pro
I guess 2 ways to do it.
Play safe ( read boring ) and while your handicap will improve it will only get so low. A 9 handicap has to shoot 9 pars around. Can't always do that by playing ultra safe and not taking on longish shots
Method 2. Practice, practice, practice short game. That way no matter where your long game puts you, as long as it's in play you will make a score - seems to have worked out ok for Phil mickle son.
Play safe ( read boring ) and while your handicap will improve it will only get so low. A 9 handicap has to shoot 9 pars around. Can't always do that by playing ultra safe and not taking on longish shots
Method 2. Practice, practice, practice short game. That way no matter where your long game puts you, as long as it's in play you will make a score - seems to have worked out ok for Phil mickle son.
sev112
Tour Winner
Ok, clarification, don't aim to hit over a front green side bunker from greater than that distance
Occasional par 3 there is no choice, then I pick the least worst spot to end up. If there is none, then I might as well go for the flag as anything.
But I watch FC after FC playing that distance all the time and ending up in the bunker, or complete mishit from trying too hard, coming off the hole with double, trebles and 10s. But as long as they enjoy their golf who am I to judge
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
As someone who usually scores in the 80's this got me thinking about what the difference is between the low ones and the high ones. I'd say the 3 main differences in my play between the those scores below 85 and those above are generally:
1. I hit more "good" shots - might just be the swing on the day but of course it is also influenced by practice and lessons
2. I make fewer mistakes - that is linked to 1 but also to a bit of course management; I make sure I take advantage of he easier holes and don't take chances on the harder ones. As a result of costly mistakes I've made I now play some holes more conservatively, avoid unnecessary risks, and get better scores.
3. I have a better metal attitude, I don't let a bad hole or a 3 putt affect me so much, I stay confident that good holes will come or that I will make a putt and I don't try to make up for mistakes with hero shots.
No idea if that helps at all but it was an interesting exercise for me.
1. I hit more "good" shots - might just be the swing on the day but of course it is also influenced by practice and lessons
2. I make fewer mistakes - that is linked to 1 but also to a bit of course management; I make sure I take advantage of he easier holes and don't take chances on the harder ones. As a result of costly mistakes I've made I now play some holes more conservatively, avoid unnecessary risks, and get better scores.
3. I have a better metal attitude, I don't let a bad hole or a 3 putt affect me so much, I stay confident that good holes will come or that I will make a putt and I don't try to make up for mistakes with hero shots.
No idea if that helps at all but it was an interesting exercise for me.
bobmac
Major Champion
Ignore what the par of the hole is
Don't try a shot you haven't practiced
Don't keep track of your score
Don't try a shot you haven't practiced
Don't keep track of your score
Canary_Yellow
Journeyman Pro
To me that just seems to boil down to being better at golf than people that hit higher scores! All good points though, it's not true to say course management is the way to improve scores in isolation, that needs to be matched by improvements in skill in all parts of the game, most notably in my view, off the tee and short game (inc. putting).
What I find most interesting though, is that if you play very aggressively it's almost inevitable that one day you'll get a whole lot of luck combined with a good ball striking day and shoot a very low round - lower than if you play a little more conservatively. However, the more conservative approach will lead to more consistent results - I see the latter approach as the most sustainable.
RobertB
Assistant Pro
My mind is still calibrated to old fashioned level 4s - 72 shots for a round, 36 thru the green and 36 putts.... where a sub scratch round comes from is trimming 3-4 3rd shots on par 5s and then putting - no three putts. Where else?
How does that relate to shooting 85 or 80...?
Well lets say can't do better than 36 shots thru the green and I'll give you 18 2 putts so now analyse where the rest of shots beyond 72 come from.
Depending on skill level there'll be a number of duffs, tops, fats.. but if you are aiming for 85 lets give you half a dozen of those... (1 every 3 holes) so still 7 more lost shots to score 85... lets say another 4 shots gone as long par 4s are effectively par 5's (so we are now saying effectively there are 8 3 shot holes in the round, take them as such!) ... so still 3 shots to play with... lets say you don't hit GIR on all par 3s ... so thats the shots used up.
Two things in my mind...where do the other shots 85+ come from...
First putting - you have to get that to a position where you don't three putt - you can't get penalty shots (OB, unplayables on green so to speak) so you should treat a 3 putt like you've incurred a penalty shot when reviewing your 18 holes every time. With some single putts holed you've banked some credit to spend on thru the green... So, every single putt green use that saved shot to offset against one lost elsewhere.
Play the course to avoid OB, lost, water and unplayables (many of which all predominately come from off the tee or 'going for it' near the green...).
Hitting 80, hitting Par 3s in one, and minimising the half dozen duffs etc. while in control of putting and shots lost to penalties...
Mid-high 70's then you start not needing a 3rd shot on the long par fours while getting all of above right ....
Dare say its fairly straightforward....arithmetic..
harder to do in practice with outside elements ...
How does that relate to shooting 85 or 80...?
Well lets say can't do better than 36 shots thru the green and I'll give you 18 2 putts so now analyse where the rest of shots beyond 72 come from.
Depending on skill level there'll be a number of duffs, tops, fats.. but if you are aiming for 85 lets give you half a dozen of those... (1 every 3 holes) so still 7 more lost shots to score 85... lets say another 4 shots gone as long par 4s are effectively par 5's (so we are now saying effectively there are 8 3 shot holes in the round, take them as such!) ... so still 3 shots to play with... lets say you don't hit GIR on all par 3s ... so thats the shots used up.
Two things in my mind...where do the other shots 85+ come from...
First putting - you have to get that to a position where you don't three putt - you can't get penalty shots (OB, unplayables on green so to speak) so you should treat a 3 putt like you've incurred a penalty shot when reviewing your 18 holes every time. With some single putts holed you've banked some credit to spend on thru the green... So, every single putt green use that saved shot to offset against one lost elsewhere.
Play the course to avoid OB, lost, water and unplayables (many of which all predominately come from off the tee or 'going for it' near the green...).
Hitting 80, hitting Par 3s in one, and minimising the half dozen duffs etc. while in control of putting and shots lost to penalties...
Mid-high 70's then you start not needing a 3rd shot on the long par fours while getting all of above right ....
Dare say its fairly straightforward....arithmetic..
harder to do in practice with outside elements ...
two-clubs
Assistant Pro
The short game is hugely important as we all know but pretty much every time I walk off a hole with a double (or worse) it's due to a poor tee shot.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Not for me. Whilst a poor tee shot will invariably make it difficult, the majority of my dropped shots come from the fact I am terrible from 50 yards or less in getting down in 2. It's nearly always a 3, (poor chip and 2 putts) and sometimes a 4 (the dreaded 3 putt because my initial chip was thinned/duffed/whatever). Getting back in play from a poor tee shot isn't usually an issue as I can still be chasing par or bogey. The problem comes I guess when after a poor tee shot you still try to play the hole like you normally would and chase the pin. Or in my case, poor tee shot, play sensible to recover and still then end up with your 4 shots from within 50 yards. I hate golf sometimes
CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
I wish I could say that! I was 50 yards from the green on a par 4 the other day, 2 x duff chip, 1 x chip on, 2 x putt = double!
Myself and my friends have ranked the priorities, as we see them, to going low. As I'm still off 21, maybe they don't work!
1. Getting off the tee, 200-250 in play
2. No 3 putts
3. Chipping. Getting it close enough for a one putt, 50% of the time at least
4. Short irons (100 yards to 175)
5. Long irons off the fairway
6. Hybrids and 3 woods off the fairway.
That's where my focus will be to get low, anyway!
woody69
Journeyman Pro
It's all about opinions and what you think works for you, but I honestly wouldn't have your number 1. Being in play is obviously very important, but the yardage isn't so much. Your opening sentence kind of proved where you need to focus on didn't it?
CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
Ah but I also shot 88, my lowest score ever, and I was in play every time off the tee for once! (bar one longer par 3!)
Maybe not the yardage to my point 1, but that is where the big scores come from, we have found. If you're taking 3 off a tee, you're rarely going to score that well!
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...
It all sounds a bit boring I know but when we're talking about breaking 85, there is no need to chase it. Anyone who can break 90 can break 85 with a bit of thought a realism.
Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first
- It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..but do i need to?, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach.
- The lie is a bit iffy, I have to carry that bunker 140 yds away to reach the green....but do i need to? My bunker play isn't great and I'm not sure how this is going to come out so I could knock it to the side of the bunker and leave it just short of the green with an easy chip.
- I've missed the green and short-sided myself behind a bunker, I could pull the lob wedge and pretend I'm Phil Mickleson, I've done it before...but do i need to? The smart play is to forget the pin and make sure I clear the bunker and get somewhere on the green.
- I've missed the fairway and there is a gap between the trees, if I can keep it low with a 5i I might still make the green...but do i need to?. What's the safest way back into play, I'll take a bogey and move on.
It all sounds a bit boring I know but when we're talking about breaking 85, there is no need to chase it. Anyone who can break 90 can break 85 with a bit of thought a realism.
Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first
G
guest100718
Guest
Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...
- It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..but do i need to?, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach.
- The lie is a bit iffy, I have to carry that bunker 140 yds away to reach the green....but do i need to? My bunker play isn't great and I'm not sure how this is going to come out so I could knock it to the side of the bunker and leave it just short of the green with an easy chip.
- I've missed the green and short-sided myself behind a bunker, I could pull the lob wedge and pretend I'm Phil Mickleson, I've done it before...but do i need to? The smart play is to forget the pin and make sure I clear the bunker and get somewhere on the green.
- I've missed the fairway and there is a gap between the trees, if I can keep it low with a 5i I might still make the green...but do i need to?. What's the safest way back into play, I'll take a bogey and move on.
It all sounds a bit boring I know but when we're talking about breaking 85, there is no need to chase it. Anyone who can break 90 can break 85 with a bit of thought a realism.
Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first
Yes you need to do all those things
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Really?
Deano23
Club Champion
For what it's worth, the best round I ever played where I was 1 over after 16 holes stood out for one reason. I had that calm and serene feeling that we saw Darren Clarke exhibit when he won the Open. I just felt so calm and at peace and unaffected by my playing partner or bad shots. I finished that round 4 over simply because I happened to glance down at my score and saw what was at stake. I lost that calm and started thinking and plotting my way around the final two holes leading to a bogey and a double. I honestly think that if I'd let my partner take the score as he had been doing I'd have shot par because the last was a reachable par five.
Jack_bfc
Challenge Tour Pro
Unfortunately there is no simple answer to this. You have to play one shot at a time and understand your own game so the answer is going to be different for everyone.. We're talking about 85 here so you don't need to par every hole. It's practically impossible to write down all of what you need to think about without boring the pants off of the forum but in general, the question "Do I need to?" is quite a good one to keep in mind. A few examples...
- It's a 380yd par 4 with not much trouble, I could hit driver and leave myself a wedge\short iron..but do i need to?, I could take less club and leave myself a slightly longer approach.
Let's call this the "Do I need to?" plan, you heard it here first
I hit fairway more than I miss with the driver so on a 380 it would be driver and 8 iron ish....
If there is trouble around the 220-240 I may take the hybrid and then one of my smaller hybrids...
But driver is club off the tee for me....
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
>50% FIR rate with a driver is impressive stuff for a 19 handicapper. I would think you were the target audience for this thread seeing as it's about breaking 85. A few weeks ago I would have said the same thing as you, driver on every hole, then I tried something different and got a bit of a surprise, you might do to.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
I have a good friend who struggles to break 100 and the driver is pretty much the only club he's actually any good at, almost regularly straight and around 200-240 mark. It's then he tries to get his 5 iron and 6 iron out that he falls on his face.
I'm like you though. Always used to be driver, but now I only use it on 10 holes at my place
matt611
Head Pro
Thanks for the replies, from the varied responses it is clear that a sub 85 plan is different to sub 100. I think that Hawkeye's post sums up quite nicely that the mental side of the game and course management is very important for the sub 85.
It would appear that trying to make a 3 point plan is a little harder for sub 85 and could vary depending on each individuals strengths and weaknesses.
For me much of the original plan is still true but perhaps slightly tweaked
1 - Get on the fairway from the tee. For me driving is a major weakness but I can hit my hybrid well so just use that
2 - <190 to the green give it a go, but look to see where the good miss is. Irons are one of my strengths
3 - >190 think carefully before going for the green. If it is too tricky make sure you leave a full club into the green
4 - Do I need to. Take a couple of seconds to re-evaluate your shot and look to see where the danger is
It would appear that trying to make a 3 point plan is a little harder for sub 85 and could vary depending on each individuals strengths and weaknesses.
For me much of the original plan is still true but perhaps slightly tweaked
1 - Get on the fairway from the tee. For me driving is a major weakness but I can hit my hybrid well so just use that
2 - <190 to the green give it a go, but look to see where the good miss is. Irons are one of my strengths
3 - >190 think carefully before going for the green. If it is too tricky make sure you leave a full club into the green
4 - Do I need to. Take a couple of seconds to re-evaluate your shot and look to see where the danger is
