How many times do I need to learn the same thing?

[Maninblack4612]

I have had a very flat swing for my entire playing life of 65+ years. Using that swing, I got as low as 5 handicap before old age took over & I rose to my present 10.8. Recently, I wasn't too playing too well, hitting a lot of shanks & a friendly pro at the range told me the flat swing was the problem. I steepened it, the shanks stopped & I hit the odd good iron shot. However, the driver, usually my best club, just wasn't working at all. I was pulling or slicing everything, down to about the 6 iron.

Last Monday my game hit an all time low, just ask @Lord Tyrion, I just couldn't hit a decent shot with any club. So yesterday I went out & just swung as I naturally would, trying not to be too flat & not come over the top (it's the OTT which causes the shanks, I'm convinced). My golf was much improved, the drives going straight or drawing slightly & nothing going straight left.

Note to self - don't listen to anyone telling you you're swinging too flat.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It worked for all these years, don't mess with it

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I have had a very flat swing for my entire playing life of 65+ years. Using that swing, I got as low as 5 handicap before old age took over & I rose to my present 10.8. Recently, I wasn't too playing too well, hitting a lot of shanks & a friendly pro at the range told me the flat swing was the problem. I steepened it, the shanks stopped & I hit the odd good iron shot. However, the driver, usually my best club, just wasn't working at all. I was pulling or slicing everything, down to about the 6 iron.

Last Monday my game hit an all time low, just ask @Lord Tyrion, I just couldn't hit a decent shot with any club. So yesterday I went out & just swung as I naturally would, trying not to be too flat & not come over the top (it's the OTT which causes the shanks, I'm convinced). My golf was much improved, the drives going straight or drawing slightly & nothing going straight left.

Note to self - don't listen to anyone telling you you're swinging too flat.

I am 100% with you. Always played with a pretty flat, very strongly in to out and fast hands ‘hoganesque’ swing that consistently produced a lovely low draw, and occasional hook, and I got down to 6 on verge of 5 - until some years ago started to consistently produce shanks.

Handicap shot up, at one point reaching 13. For a decade or more I hung on trying to fix it myself but eventually it got so depressingly bad that I would be in such despair would considered jacking it in. And then one day came acceptance that maybe just maybe I should go to my pro for help.

Pro instantly spotted problem, but suggested that since I had been playing with my in to out swing for so long (35+ yrs), the best thing to do would be for me to change my swing path and at the same time the flatness of my swing could, and would, be more easily changed - without me very consciously forcing that change.

It’s taking a lot of time but it’s getting there. My driving and short game are as good as ever, and though I still hit an occasional shank, and my 5,6 and 7 irons are still ropey, at least now I know why, and because of that I am much more accepting of them. And I’m back down to 8.0.

 

[bobmac]

The ball doesn't care where your backswing goes

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The ball doesn't care where your backswing goes

Indeed - exactly what my pro tells me…though it does know what your clubhead is doing when it gets hit by it. The way I was doing it was too variable and risky and that’s why I am learning anew…perhaps a better way of describing what I am doing. But as we know, breaking old and engrained habits is difficult.

 

[Maninblack4612]

The ball doesn't care where your backswing goes

I am 100% with you. Always played with a pretty flat, very strongly in to out and fast hands ‘hoganesque’ swing that consistently produced a lovely low draw, and occasional hook, and I got down to 6 on verge of 5 - until some years ago started to consistently produce shanks.

Handicap shot up, at one point reaching 13. For a decade or more I hung on trying to fix it myself but eventually it got so depressingly bad that I would be in such despair would considered jacking it in. And then one day came acceptance that maybe just maybe I should go to my pro for help.

Pro instantly spotted problem, but suggested that since I had been playing with my flat swing for so long (35+ yrs), the best thing to do would be for me to change my swing path and at the same time the flatness of my swing could, and would, be more easily changed - without me very consciously forcing that change.

It’s taking a lot of time but it’s getting there. My driving and short game are as good as ever, and though I still hit an occasional shank, and my 5,6 and 7 irons are still ropey, at least now I know why, and because of that I am much more accepting of them. And I’m back down to 8.0.

I think that the farther you get from your natural swing the harder it is to get it to repeat. A number of pros, including one session with the Duke of York's coach, have identified the flat swing as the fault. However not one has mentioned what, to me is obvious. That is that, on the backswing my head rises & rotates anti clockwise, making the backswing look even flatter. Also, my build doesn't help. I'm 5'11½" tall & there are folks 5'7" with longer legs than me. My bad shots are thins which fly right & shanks, both, in my view, attributable to the bobbing head, not the flat swing. I've tried everything to keep the head still but a stiff neck doesn't help.

I'm off to the range soon to try to groove the "new" swing & eliminate the head movement & OTT move, ready for the second Open Seniors' event tomorrow & Lord T's invitation day on Saturday (we came fourth last year).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think that the farther you get from your natural swing the harder it is to get it to repeat. A number of pros, including one session with the Duke of York's coach, have identified the flat swing as the fault. However not one has mentioned what, to me is obvious. That is that, on the backswing my head rises & rotates anti clockwise, making the backswing look even flatter. Also, my build doesn't help. I'm 5'11½" tall & there are folks 5'7" with longer legs than me. My bad shots are thins which fly right & shanks, both, in my view, attributable to the bobbing head, not the flat swing. I've tried everything to keep the head still but a stiff neck doesn't help.

I'm off to the range soon to try to groove the "new" swing & eliminate the head movement & OTT move, ready for the second Open Seniors' event tomorrow & Lord T's invitation day on Saturday (we came fourth last year).

With me it wasn’t so much the flatness of the back swing that caused my problems, it was my strong in-to-out and very fast hands at strike (to compensate I guess). I think of it now that I didn’t play with a ‘grooved’ swing, more I was an ‘expert tightrope walker’ with little margin for things not quite right. And so when I fell off the tightrope it was painful and very difficult to get back on. So I have stopped bothering. Do it a new, different, way.

 

[bobmac]

Do either of you roll your wrists/forearms on the backswing?

 

[SocketRocket]

A flat shoulder turn creates all sorts of poor impact shots for me. If my ball striking feels off its the first thing I look at and swinging more around my spine tilt improves it.

 

[Maninblack4612]

Do either of you roll your wrists/forearms on the backswing?

Yes, but not to a massive degree, or that's how it feels, anyway. I've used an Explanar before & the feeling is that the first two feet of the backswing follows my natural path, then the club goes up & out with the left forearm rotating.

 

[Maninblack4612]

A flat shoulder turn creates all sorts of poor impact shots for me. If my ball striking feels off its the first thing I look at and swinging more around my spine tilt improves it.

I think there's only one way to turn the shoulders & that's at right angles to the spine. If I try to swing more steeply I'm just tilting & everything goes wrong.

 

[Maninblack4612]

With me it wasn’t so much the flatness of the back swing that caused my problems, it was my strong in-to-out and very fast hands at strike (to compensate I guess). I think of it now that I didn’t play with a ‘grooved’ swing, more I was an ‘expert tightrope walker’ with little margin for things not quite right. And so when I fell off the tightrope it was painful and very difficult to get back on. So I have stopped bothering. Do it a new, different, way.

Sounds a bit like old me. Had to instinctively flip the hands with an over the top move to stop the ball going right. Resulted in a shank too often, however.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sounds a bit like old me. Had to instinctively flip the hands with an over the top move to stop the ball going right. Resulted in a shank too often, however.

Exactly that…

 

[bobmac]

Film yourself down the line and compare your clubface angle to Luke below.
You can clearly see it's parallel with his spine so square.
If your face is square, there's no need to flip

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The ball doesn't care where your backswing goes

Very true.
Just make sure the bits below your waist are in order.