Here comes the rollback..maybe

[Grant85]

Also another point I've seen is that the top players are not really hitting it further, it's just that there is now more of them who are bombers and so the averages are going up every year.

Also seems that average driving distance on the Korn Ferry Tour is longer than the PGA, as you don't have the old school pros bringing down the average.

I know Webb Simpson & Graeme McDowell have just won, but they are great putters and short game players. Seems unlikely that a 21 year old Webb or Graeme would even make it onto tour these days.

Rory Mcilroy average driving distance on the PGA Tour.
2020 312
2019 313.5
2018 319.7
2017 317.2
2016 306.8
2015 304
2014 310.5
2013 302.2
2012 310.1

So you can see he's only added 2 or 3 yards in the last 8 years and some years he's gone backwards.

Albeit courses and course set up might account for some of that, as well as his accuracy of getting the right line to get the most run etc.

 

[harpo_72]

What if you removed all bunkers and hazards up to 260y would there be an outcry ? Effectively not penalising the shorter hitters because they are already penalised.

 

[Imurg]

I'm not totally convinced they're worried about drives of 320 or so..
It's the 400 yarders that make a mockery of courses, driving 400 yard par 4s, making a 550 yard par 5 a drive and a wedge..
Grow the grass a little of the fairways..that'll stop miles of run.

 

[pendodave]

Also another point I've seen is that the top players are not really hitting it further, it's just that there is now more of them who are bombers and so the averages are going up every year.

Also seems that average driving distance on the Korn Ferry Tour is longer than the PGA, as you don't have the old school pros bringing down the average.

I know Webb Simpson & Graeme McDowell have just won, but they are great putters and short game players. Seems unlikely that a 21 year old Webb or Graeme would even make it onto tour these days.

Rory Mcilroy average driving distance on the PGA Tour.
2020 312
2019 313.5
2018 319.7
2017 317.2
2016 306.8
2015 304
2014 310.5
2013 302.2
2012 310.1

So you can see he's only added 2 or 3 yards in the last 8 years and some years he's gone backwards.

Albeit courses and course set up might account for some of that, as well as his accuracy of getting the right line to get the most run etc.

Most of the difference in distance occurred with the change to the solid core ball (prov1), so numbers from the last decade reveal less than you think. The issue is that the governing bodies are now trying to redress the lack of action then.

 

[pendodave]

I'm not totally convinced they're worried about drives of 320 or so..
It's the 400 yarders that make a mockery of courses, driving 400 yard par 4s, making a 550 yard par 5 a drive and a wedge..
Grow the grass a little of the fairways..that'll stop miles of run.

Stopping run takes an awful lot of skill out of the game of golf. At that point it becomes simulator golf. When Justin Thomas obliterated Medhina (sp) the other year, there was no run - the fairways and greens were soft, so they could hit as hard as they liked with impunity.
Links golf and places like Royal Melbourne are interesting and skillful because the players have to factor in the effect of slope and run when they hit the fairway. Shaping the ball is sometimes the only way to do this. Making fairways soft is the very definition of target golf.
It's really mystifying to me why so many people think that the answer to what is effectively mechanical steroids is to change the courses. How about just stop taking the drugs?

 

[Smasher]

I bought an R540 before they lowered the cor from 0.86 to 0.83.
I was in the market for a new driver but there's no way I'm spending £400 on something that might become illigal.
Idiots in charge of the game!

 

[Junior]

I think the governing bodies are looking at this with just the pro game in mind and that's wrong. It's great to compare youself with these guys. The answer for me is more with the courses than the equipment. The only equipment change id make is to have the maximum loft of a wedge at 56. This, along with toughening up the courses will make the pros be more creative and skillful.

With regards to the courses.....longer rough, make more of a premium on accuracy. Firm up the greens etc. I like the fact the ball goes a decent way. Leave it as it is. Modern equipment makes the game easier and that, coupled with being able to hit the ball a decent distance is attractive to people starting out.

 

[Parsaregood]

It seems obvious that there has to be some regulation of golf ball performance. They could easily have a ball that performed the same or better with wedges and irons but didn't produce the same ball speed with swing speeds in excess of 120mph perhaps spinning more with a driver. This would stop guys being intent on hitting it harder as the harder you hit it the more it will spin and reduce carry. No more guys carrying it 315+ . It's easy to play off tees further forward but not so easy to keep extending. Iconic historic golf venues must be protected at all costs

 

[Swinglowandslow]

What if you removed all bunkers and hazards up to 260y would there be an outcry ? Effectively not penalising the shorter hitters because they are already penalised.

That is a very good point. It isn't really fair to say that a guy driving a ball to carry 250 max is a not very good player. ( oh that I could do that!)
He may be a very good golfer, but he is going to be penalised when a bunker is at that distance slap bang in the middle of the fairway.
Rory ,on the other hand, doesn't give it a thought. For him, the bunker doesn't come into it.
Frankly, I am of the view that there shouldn't be a bunker in the middle of any fairway. If you can hit it down the middle it's a good shot. It shouldn't be penalised. The guy who hits it a long way down the middle is getting a good advantage anyway, he doesn't need the added one of the shorter hitter being in a bunker!

 

[Grant85]

What if you removed all bunkers and hazards up to 260y would there be an outcry ? Effectively not penalising the shorter hitters because they are already penalised.

I think this is interesting and a potential solution in some cases.

Problem is that nearly every course is played by amateurs 99.9% of the time. So these would not be played as intended, really, if bunkers / hazards were all moved up.

I guess you could add in additional bunkers / hazards further up so at least the bombers had a similar level of risk as shorter hitters. But this comes at a cost in construction, maintenance and potentially aesthetics.

Golf and course design has always had a risk reward element and when you have bunkers coming in at between 240 to 280 it is effectively easier for a lot of the pros to hit a driver, which is certainly not how the course would have been designed.

Ultimately we could be moving to a place where some courses are specifically designed to only be played by Pros and effectively would never really be all that enjoyable for amateurs.

I know that Ian Woosnam floated the idea that they should build a purpose built course at St. Andrews to host the Open as a permanent venue at the same place each year, that could be designed specifically to be a proper challenge to professionals. I guess ultimately it's an evolving sport and there are original / historical championship venues no longer considered suitable (as well as plenty of changes made to the existing rota over the years) but part of the charm of the Open is that it moves about to these great courses each year and it would be a real shame to think we'd never see the Open staged at the Old Course or Birkdale etc.

 

[Crow]

That is a very good point. It isn't really fair to say that a guy driving a ball to carry 250 max is a not very good player. ( oh that I could do that!)
He may be a very good golfer, but he is going to be penalised when a bunker is at that distance slap bang in the middle of the fairway.
Rory ,on the other hand, doesn't give it a thought. For him, the bunker doesn't come into it.
Frankly, I am of the view that there shouldn't be a bunker in the middle of any fairway. If you can hit it down the middle it's a good shot. It shouldn't be penalised. The guy who hits it a long way down the middle is getting a good advantage anyway, he doesn't need the added one of the shorter hitter being in a bunker!

People calling for hazards across the fairway at driving distance are taking course design back 100 years!
Cross bunkers were a common feature in golf course design back then, until the greats of course design such as Colt & MacKenzie dropped cross bunkers and started to design hazards that offered a reward if you played the more dangerous line but at the same time offered a less penal option which gave less opportunity for your next shot.
Unfortunately the great courses that these men designed are pretty much redundant for top level golfers, even after having been messed around with in many cases.

People arguing against bifurcation with regard to the ball as they like to compare themselves against the Pros, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a few Pro spec balls to play with when you want to compare.

To be honest I don't care what they do with modern equipment as I've rejected it all.
But if they bring back a ball that spins like the old balata then I'll be as happy as Larry!

 

[Parsaregood]

People calling for hazards across the fairway at driving distance are taking course design back 100 years!
Cross bunkers were a common feature in golf course design back then, until the greats of course design such as Colt & MacKenzie dropped cross bunkers and started to design hazards that offered a reward if you played the more dangerous line but at the same time offered a less penal option which gave less opportunity for your next shot.
Unfortunately the great courses that these men designed are pretty much redundant for top level golfers, even after having been messed around with in many cases.

People arguing against bifurcation with regard to the ball as they like to compare themselves against the Pros, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a few Pro spec balls to play with when you want to compare.

To be honest I don't care what they do with modern equipment as I've rejected it all.
But if they bring back a ball that spins like the old balata then I'll be as happy as Larry!

You cant have bifurcation whilst amateurs and professionals regularly play in the same tournaments. At what point does an elite amateur have to use a pro ball ? It just wouldn't work. It has to be the same rules for all

 

[Swinglowandslow]

People calling for hazards across the fairway at driving distance are taking course design back 100 years!
Cross bunkers were a common feature in golf course design back then, until the greats of course design such as Colt & MacKenzie dropped cross bunkers and started to design hazards that offered a reward if you played the more dangerous line but at the same time offered a less penal option which gave less opportunity for your next shot.
Unfortunately the great courses that these men designed are pretty much redundant for top level golfers, even after having been messed around with in many cases.

People arguing against bifurcation with regard to the ball as they like to compare themselves against the Pros, there would be nothing stopping you from buying a few Pro spec balls to play with when you want to compare.

To be honest I don't care what they do with modern equipment as I've rejected it all.
But if they bring back a ball that spins like the old balata then I'll be as happy as Larry!

Exactly. The ball is the easiest solution. Easy to implement , and the Pros play their game and us mortals play ours - (still not long enough?)
I must admit, I do intend to try some of the old equipment come summer.
My first wood was a 2 wood called a brassie. Would like to give it another go.
I have a set of old blades, so I think I will find one and have a fun day.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not everybody's cup of tea but Crossfield discusses the R&A report with his own views

 

[rksquire]

Just watched some interviews and read some comments from Pro Golfers - really, the takeaway here is that this is all a bit pointless.

The bomber bombs the ball on a par 5 and hits a high lofted iron or wedge in; other guys, say Gmac for example, is hitting a lot more club in. Roll back the distance the ball goes, the bomber is now hitting a long iron or wood in; Gmac, for example, is taking 3 shots. The bombers aren't scared of this, if anything, the shorter hitting pros should be more scared. Despite what people think, there is a skill to hitting it long - the issue I have is that at most tournaments you can be so far off line you're not penalized enough but that is easy changed by just upping the rough. The solution or knee jerk reaction to guys now hitting it longer was never to make the courses longer, the very simple solution is to make sure it stays on the fairway or else you're in trouble.

We don't have an outcry where people are short game wizards or phenomenal putters yet this skill puts them at a massive advantage - similar to the suggestion a McIlroy, or Koepka or DJ driving prowess gives them a massive advantage.

 

[garyinderry]

Just watched some interviews and read some comments from Pro Golfers - really, the takeaway here is that this is all a bit pointless.

The bomber bombs the ball on a par 5 and hits a high lofted iron or wedge in; other guys, say Gmac for example, is hitting a lot more club in. Roll back the distance the ball goes, the bomber is now hitting a long iron or wood in; Gmac, for example, is taking 3 shots. The bombers aren't scared of this, if anything, the shorter hitting pros should be more scared. Despite what people think, there is a skill to hitting it long - the issue I have is that at most tournaments you can be so far off line you're not penalized enough but that is easy changed by just upping the rough. The solution or knee jerk reaction to guys now hitting it longer was never to make the courses longer, the very simple solution is to make sure it stays on the fairway or else you're in trouble.

We don't have an outcry where people are short game wizards or phenomenal putters yet this skill puts them at a massive advantage - similar to the suggestion a McIlroy, or Koepka or DJ driving prowess gives them a massive advantage.

They literally banned belly putting.

 

[pendodave]

Just watched some interviews and read some comments from Pro Golfers - really, the takeaway here is that this is all a bit pointless.

The bomber bombs the ball on a par 5 and hits a high lofted iron or wedge in; other guys, say Gmac for example, is hitting a lot more club in. Roll back the distance the ball goes, the bomber is now hitting a long iron or wood in; Gmac, for example, is taking 3 shots. The bombers aren't scared of this, if anything, the shorter hitting pros should be more scared. Despite what people think, there is a skill to hitting it long - the issue I have is that at most tournaments you can be so far off line you're not penalized enough but that is easy changed by just upping the rough. The solution or knee jerk reaction to guys now hitting it longer was never to make the courses longer, the very simple solution is to make sure it stays on the fairway or else you're in trouble.

We don't have an outcry where people are short game wizards or phenomenal putters yet this skill puts them at a massive advantage - similar to the suggestion a McIlroy, or Koepka or DJ driving prowess gives them a massive advantage.

If there was a skill to hitting it along way, they wouldn't all be doing it.
And can we just not ignore what the pros are saying? They are paid by ball companies to say exactly what they want them to. Just like other ad sponsored media outlets. Can we not use just a little critical thought here??

 

[sunshine]

I think they should reduce the maximum allowed driver size to make them more unforgiving. The guys these days can literally get away with swinging as hard as possible and even if they dont middle it, the MOI is so high it makes little difference. if they brought the driver size down to say 380, sure you can still crack it as far if you middle it but its bringing the skill of hitting it out the middle back into play. I guarantee guys wouldn't swing as hard on certain layouts. I also believe that there should be an agreed standard for golf balls with the governing bodies having control over certain elements of this. Bring back the shot makers

This is an interesting point. But is it fair to say that people swinging as hard as possible with driver are also doing the same with a smaller headed 3 wood or 2 iron?

 

[USER1999]

What if the roll back didn't limit distance, but made the ball harder to control. Those who can use the skill, can still bomb it, but they will be the exception. Niclaus and Norman are examples of guys who made driving look easy, even with balata and persimmon.
Right now, loads of middle of the road tour players can just whack it with the big stick, as hard as they can.
Apart from distance, what skills does JB Homes bring to the game?

 

[rksquire]

They literally banned belly putting.

Were the belly putters phenomenal at putting? They banned them, but not because they were overwhelming greens and making a mockery of pin positions.

If there was a skill to hitting it along way, they wouldn't all be doing it.
And can we just not ignore what the pros are saying? They are paid by ball companies to say exactly what they want them to. Just like other ad sponsored media outlets. Can we not use just a little critical thought here??

There is most definitely a skill to hitting it, accurately, a long way. They may be paid by ball companies but these guys aren't worried about rolling back the ball - their advantage remains intact as they are longer regardless. Tigers advantage in the 90s and 00s was he could hit the ball a long way and back it up in other areas. He still, on average, hits the ball the same distance. But he also set a bar to be attained and the number of athletes now who monitor their stats, their diets, their fitness, analyse precise numbers etc. all add up to hitting the ball a long way. Other sports embrace technology and are constantly looking to to he future; however, in golf we seem to want to say lets wind the clock back and live in the past. And then the ball companies and manufactures will take their millions. I think the whole thing and comparing to other eras is pointless. Compare the average professional footballer now to one in the early 90s, compare the pitch technology, the ball etc. It's pointless.

Most sports want to make things better by moving forward; in golf are we really saying to make things better we have to move backwards?