Her Majesty's Lot at it again

[Deleted member 1740]

Just to follow up on this, the quote in my post above about the "officers" not being placed on restricted duties seems to suggest that there was more than just the one officer on the scene so maybe the video doesn't show the "assistance from colleagues" that the officer has.

That video clearly shows another copper standing there near a marked car.

You cannot defend his actions. If that was the other way round you'd be calling for the book to thrown at him.

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ffs_OMG/status/777551781761081344/video/1

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Yes, I'm serious. That video alone doesn't show enough evidence to decide whether the police officer was justified or not in taking the action he did and I'd rather wait until I have all the information before condemning him. If it turns out that the investigation shows that he was unjustified in what he did then I will be more than happy to admit he was wrong, but until then none of us knows. It's a bit like showing a video of a policeman shooting an "unarmed" man dead without showing the build up to the incident where the offender was waving a gun around and it just happened to be hidden behind his body when the video started.

Load of rubbish. The fella has not been arrested, that's more than enough evidence to suggest the copper was bang out of order.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Officer rightly on restricted duties and an investigation rightly taking place. Hard to condone the behaviour of either officer in the video, certainly with no arrests and mistaken identity, and you have to hope that if these officers did break the law in this, they get properly punished. Sadly the cynic in me feels that won't happen

 

[Fish]

There's actually a lot more to this than is being published and for what is being discussed on here. The driver disclosed himself only as TJ (I think) a number of times and was consistently obstructive at first giving no less than 2 alias when asked for his personal details, when checking those details they were all not the driver at the wheel, he then gave a name (not his) that was actually disqualified! Without being able to safely identify the driver and he refusing to get out of the vehicle on numerous times prior to the video starting, they acted under PACE I believe to arrest him, were those actions OTT, yes, but he refused to hand over the keys of the vehicle and gave numerous false identities, so, at what time do the police scale it up, and how do they get at the person to arrest him who has given false information and refuses to get out the vehicle and will only speak through the small opening of the window?

Yes the police officer lost the plot a little (a lot), but it was to a degree a stand off, I'm no huge fan of plod, and as I state, it looks like he lost control of himself, but when faced with someone giving consistent false information there comes a time to act!

 

[One Planer]

There's actually a lot more to this than is being published and for what is being discussed on here. The driver disclosed himself only as TJ (I think) a number of times and was consistently obstructive at first giving no less than 2 alias when asked for his personal details, when checking those details they were all not the driver at the wheel, he then gave a name (not his) that was actually disqualified! Without being able to safely identify the driver and he refusing to get out of the vehicle on numerous times prior to the video starting, they acted under PACE I believe to arrest him, were those actions OTT, yes, but he refused to hand over the keys of the vehicle and gave numerous false identities, so, at what time do the police scale it up, and how do they get at the person to arrest him who has given false information and refuses to get out the vehicle and will only speak through the small opening of the window?

Yes the police officer lost the plot a little (a lot), but it was to a degree a stand off, I'm no huge fan of plod, and as I state, it looks like he lost control of himself, but when faced with someone giving consistent false information there comes a time to act!

While I agree with most of that, the actions the officer took were not sufficient to remove the person from the vehicle.

What he did to the car in a futile attempt to gain access was, borderline, criminal damage.

His patrol partner can be seen standing idly by. When he saw his colleague had lost it, he should have stepped in and removed him from the situation, taking the lead in attempting to gain access through discussion/negotiation.

This whole situation could have been avoided and potentially solved through discussion had his partner acted.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

These officers are given the best available training and are expected to be calm and in control, in this instance he failed miserably.

I still don't believe that his actions were correct, him and his oppo were adamant the driver was banned and not allowed to drive.

The driver couldn't have done much wrong or he'd have been arrested wouldn't he?

They thought he was TJ, it turns out he wasn't yet that copper was adamant.

 

[Fish]

These officers are given the best available training and are expected to be calm and in control, in this instance he failed miserably.

I still don't believe that his actions were correct, him and his oppo were adamant the driver was banned and not allowed to drive.

The driver couldn't have done much wrong or he'd have been arrested wouldn't he?

They thought he was TJ, it turns out he wasn't yet that copper was adamant.

As I said, I think more will be disclosed about it, it's easy to judge on only what we've seen and heard, which by the way looks to be very poor and OTT by all concerned, but that doesn't excuse the obstructive nature and giving of aliases that wound the copper up, I don't think it was just a case of mistaken identity from what I've been told, but if it turns out that way, then the copper needs to be sacked, lose his pension and go to anger management classes, as that is what would have to Joe public if the tables were turned.

 

[sawtooth]

The copper actions were wholly unprofessional.

Immobilise the car first (block it in or whatever) and then talk to the suspect calmly. If that doesn't work surely then explain that he will need to access vehicle by force and why. Complete lack of communication.

Why didnt he stop and consult with his colleague?

And finally there must be a better way to access the vehicle! A small , pocket sized automatic centre punch would have smashed that glass safely and in a blink of an eye.

Using a knife or whatever was amateurish to say the least.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

As I said, I think more will be disclosed about it, it's easy to judge on only what we've seen and heard, which by the way looks to be very poor and OTT by all concerned, but that doesn't excuse the obstructive nature and giving of aliases that wound the copper up, I don't think it was just a case of mistaken identity from what I've been told, but if it turns out that way, then the copper needs to be sacked, lose his pension and go to anger management classes, as that is what would have to Joe public if the tables were turned.

No copper should get wound up to that point, they're supposed to be highly trained and professional at all times.

They thought he was TJ but it turns out he was his cousin, the other copper can be heard saying " that's it Leon, I havent seen you in a long time".

OK this kid may have a bit of previous bit that still doesn't excuse the copper to behave the way he did.

Criminal damage and a short stay at Her Majestys pleasure should be suffice punishment for that copper.

 

[Old Skier]

No copper should get wound up to that point, they're supposed to be highly trained and professional at all times.

They thought he was TJ but it turns out he was his cousin, the other copper can be heard saying " that's it Leon, I havent seen you in a long time".

OK this kid may have a bit of previous bit that still doesn't excuse the copper to behave the way he did.

Criminal damage and a short stay at Her Majestys pleasure should be suffice punishment for that copper.

Was it unprofessional - yes
Has he appeared to lose it - yes
Do you know what other stressors he'd gone through that week - no
Should we hang him before all of the facts have been established- bloody right.

 

[Tashyboy]

There's actually a lot more to this than is being published and for what is being discussed on here. The driver disclosed himself only as TJ (I think) a number of times and was consistently obstructive at first giving no less than 2 alias when asked for his personal details, when checking those details they were all not the driver at the wheel, he then gave a name (not his) that was actually disqualified! Without being able to safely identify the driver and he refusing to get out of the vehicle on numerous times prior to the video starting, they acted under PACE I believe to arrest him, were those actions OTT, yes, but he refused to hand over the keys of the vehicle and gave numerous false identities, so, at what time do the police scale it up, and how do they get at the person to arrest him who has given false information and refuses to get out the vehicle and will only speak through the small opening of the window?

Yes the police officer lost the plot a little (a lot), but it was to a degree a stand off, I'm no huge fan of plod, and as I state, it looks like he lost control of himself, but when faced with someone giving consistent false information there comes a time to act!

Well written Fish and yes the copper lost if big style which is totally unacceptable. Cannot believe the comments re the contents of the video though. It is a selective video in which it is cropped and downloaded to make the copper look the prat he was. however. Where is the bit of the video where the idiot in the car will not get out of the car when asked. If you have done nothing wrong get out of the car, end of story. This clown in the car helped to contribute to this story and has played the
" I am a victim in this" card quite well.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Was it unprofessional - yes
Has he appeared to lose it - yes
Do you know what other stressors he'd gone through that week - no
Should we hang him before all of the facts have been established- bloody right.

Hanging him is a bit extreme.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Well written Fish and yes the copper lost if big style which is totally unacceptable. Cannot believe the comments re the contents of the video though. It is a selective video in which it is cropped and downloaded to make the copper look the prat he was. however. Where is the bit of the video where the idiot in the car will not get out of the car when asked. If you have done nothing wrong get out of the car, end of story. This clown in the car helped to contribute to this story and has played the
" I am a victim in this" card quite well.

Whilst I agree he should've just got out of the car and played along with them, police officers deal with this type of reaction every day of the week and are well trained to deal with such circumstances.

However, smashing his window screen to pieces should not have happened and cannot be defended.

The copper made himself look like a prat.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Well written Fish and yes the copper lost if big style which is totally unacceptable. Cannot believe the comments re the contents of the video though. It is a selective video in which it is cropped and downloaded to make the copper look the prat he was. however. Where is the bit of the video where the idiot in the car will not get out of the car when asked. If you have done nothing wrong get out of the car, end of story. This clown in the car helped to contribute to this story and has played the
" I am a victim in this" card quite well.

Why is he a clown? and he is a victim, a victim of mistaken identity.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Why is he a clown? and he is a victim, a victim of mistaken identity.

Which could have easily been cleared up by getting out of the car and giving his real name to the police. The "victim" only became one because he decided to be an arse and the situation then escalated because of his actions.

 

[Snelly]

And some people want them all to be armed

I would like them to be armed. Absolutely.

And in this specific instance, had the officer after the 7th time of asking, pulled out a 9mm Browning and said, I am asking you to get out of the car for the last time, I reckon the obstructive "victim" might well have done as he was told, and answered any further questions a bit sharpish too.

 

[Foxholer]

Seems there's at least some fault/blame on both sides!

However, PC seriously lost it, which is totally unacceptable! Significant taxpayer funding has gone into training him/them to avoid such escalation of confrontation - and he has failed this 'test' miserably! His partner, imo, didn't have time to moderate but didn't seem inclined to either, so some issues there too! There'll also be a hefty bill for the taxpayer to repair the physical damage and 'loss of use' compensation.

 

[sawtooth]

I would like them to be armed. Absolutely.

And in this specific instance, had the officer after the 7th time of asking, pulled out a 9mm Browning and said, I am asking you to get out of the car for the last time, I reckon the obstructive "victim" might well have done as he was told, and answered any further questions a bit sharpish too.

You've been watching too many movies lol. 😷

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I would like them to be armed. Absolutely.

And in this specific instance, had the officer after the 7th time of asking, pulled out a 9mm Browning and said, I am asking you to get out of the car for the last time, I reckon the obstructive "victim" might well have done as he was told, and answered any further questions a bit sharpish too.

Yep, that approach is working oh so well in the US right now. If a copper could lose it as badly as in that video, imagine him with a gun.