Her Majesty's Lot at it again

[Foxholer]

I would like them to be armed. Absolutely.

And in this specific instance, had the officer after the 7th time of asking, pulled out a 9mm Browning and said, I am asking you to get out of the car for the last time, I reckon the obstructive "victim" might well have done as he was told, and answered any further questions a bit sharpish too.

As far as I know, neither the Police nor 'the public' want the Police to be armed as a matter of course! That would almost certainly simply lead to an increase in the level of armament by criminals/gangs, with dire consequences!

Certain members of the Police are able to be 'armed', but with significant additional checks/training. I don't believe this PC would qualify!

@Snelly What do you think the PC (in your hypothetical scenario) should do if the guy in the car refuses - because he is able to claim (quite legitimately imo) that he is frightened of the consequences of getting out of the car with the PC in that state?

 

[Snelly]

Yep, that approach is working oh so well in the US right now. If a copper could lose it as badly as in that video, imagine him with a gun.

The childlike leap you make to frame your argument is a large one. What about all the other countries around the world that have armed police officers and are not shooting black people daily? Nor are they smacking windscreens with batons to coax unco-operative wasters of police time out of their cars after asking them to get out multiple times.

That aside, I am imagining the copper in the video with a gun and am of the view that he would not have had to ask so many times, receive lies back or get so wound up at the lack of co-operation, if he had pulled out a pistol and calmly asked them man to stop messing him around and get out of the car immediately.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I would like them to be armed. Absolutely.

And in this specific instance, had the officer after the 7th time of asking, pulled out a 9mm Browning and said, I am asking you to get out of the car for the last time, I reckon the obstructive "victim" might well have done as he was told, and answered any further questions a bit sharpish too.

Rules of engagement would not allow them to pull a gun on someone unless they believe their life was in danger - it's A minefield and someone ignore a copper or refusing to get out of a car isn't life threatening

 

[Snelly]

@Snelly What do you think the PC (in your hypothetical scenario) should do if the guy in the car refuses - because he is able to claim (quite legitimately imo) that he is frightened of the consequences of getting out of the car with the PC in that state?

See the answer above. He would not have been in that state because the guy would have got out of the car immediately.

 

[Old Skier]

Shoot the bugger, obviously a known scrote with issues with authority, or build two sets of gallows and hang them both at the same time.

Lot of assumptions going on with very little evidence MyLud

 

[Tashyboy]

Which could have easily been cleared up by getting out of the car and giving his real name to the police. The "victim" only became one because he decided to be an arse and the situation then escalated because of his actions.

Exactly which is why I said if you get out of the car when you have done nothing wrong. There is nothing to film.
When I went to York on son in laws stag do it was 11.00 pm the streets were full of drunks. One decided he could take on six coppers. He was told half a dozen times to go home. Eventually he said make me and swung at a copper. The six coppers wrestled him to the floor. One of the lads who I was stood with is in the armed police. He said "watch this", within seconds Lord knows how many phones came out filming police brutality. But not one filmed the clown in the first place being a idiot threatening the police. That is why I take edited videos with a pinch of salt.

 

[Tashyboy]

Rules of engagement would not allow them to pull a gun on someone unless they believe their life was in danger - it's A minefield and someone ignore a copper or refusing to get out of a car isn't life threatening

But staying in a car could be.

 

[Foxholer]

See the answer above. He would not have been in that state because the guy would have got out of the car immediately.

What answer above?

And you should consider LiverpoolPhil's reply (#43)!

 

[vkurup]

Whats all that about. If a Police office asks you to get out of your car then you absolutely should get out of it. He should have considered himself lucky, in may countries he would have been shot.

Did the police not issue a warning to motorist not to pull over if asked to do so by unmarked police cars?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-36902057
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14645766.Warning_issued_after_van_thefts_by__fake_police__on_M25/

So do you stop or dont you stop?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But staying in a car could be.

How could he be endangering life by sitting in a car ?

Anytime a weapon is pulled or fire or cocked you need to be able to justify your reasons
If you can't justify it then only one person is in trouble
Rules of Engagement are clear for people carrying weapons.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Totally agree with Snelly that our Officers should be armed.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Did the police not issue a warning to motorist not to pull over if asked to do so by unmarked police cars?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-36902057
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14645766.Warning_issued_after_van_thefts_by__fake_police__on_M25/

So do you stop or dont you stop?

Totally different situation. This was a marked police car with blue lights flashing and two uniformed policemen. The driver had already stopped and then refused to do as instructed.

 

[Foxholer]

Did the police not issue a warning to motorist not to pull over if asked to do so by unmarked police cars?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-36902057
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14645766.Warning_issued_after_van_thefts_by__fake_police__on_M25/

So do you stop or dont you stop?

They are (were) being asked to 'call 999' to check if it was a real police car. So they are actually being encouraged to use their phone while driving! Bit of a problem if the reason they were being pulled over was.... for using their mobile while driving!

 

[Fish]

Totally agree with Snelly that our Officers should be armed.

More are armed than you think!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

More are armed than you think!

I mean all though mate, every last one of them.

 

[Hobbit]

I mean all though mate, every last one of them.

82% of British bobbies don't want to be armed. According to the federation, they believe they have the tools to do the job without being armed.

 

[Tashyboy]

82% of British bobbies don't want to be armed. According to the federation, they believe they have the tools to do the job without being armed.

but there are a lot that have applied and passed the selection process to join firearms, so much so there is one hell of a backlog to train them. Incidentally the increase in arming the police force is to combat the terrorist threat.

 

[Tashyboy]

How could he be endangering life by sitting in a car ?

Anytime a weapon is pulled or fire or cocked you need to be able to justify your reasons
If you can't justify it then only one person is in trouble
Rules of Engagement are clear for people carrying weapons.

we are discussing a car, but this could of been any vehicle and recent events on the continent where a vehicle was used to murder innocent victims is the point I am trying to make.
99.9% of individuals would of got out of the car. Especially if innocent. If I was that copper and asked him repeatedly to get out of the vehicle and he refused, I would be asking myself " why is he not getting out". His actions as stated by me were ott.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

we are discussing a car, but this could of been any vehicle and recent events on the continent where a vehicle was used to murder innocent victims is the point I am trying to make.
99.9% of individuals would of got out of the car. Especially if innocent. If I was that copper and asked him repeatedly to get out of the vehicle and he refused, I would be asking myself " why is he not getting out". His actions as stated by me were ott.

Again none of it is justification to use firearms or to even draw one. Always use minimum force required - that's a clear directive within rules of engagement and you will never be able to use "he wouldn't get out of his car " as just cause to draw your weapon. He is causing no harm to life yours or any others

 

[Tashyboy]

Again none of it is justification to use firearms or to even draw one. Always use minimum force required - that's a clear directive within rules of engagement and you will never be able to use "he wouldn't get out of his car " as just cause to draw your weapon. He is causing no harm to life yours or any others

I have never even suggested that there was any justification to use any kind of force, be it chop at the windscreen or use a gun.