Handicaps limits in Opens

[jim8flog]

Part our clubs discussion went. If you have a higher handicap than the limit but are allowed to play at that limit how far above the limit do you allow it to be? If you set a limit to the figure above the limit say of 6 strokes above the limit you might as well increase the limit by those 6 strokes.

If you do not set a limit is it reasonable with a handicap limit of 20 to let a player with say a handicap of 40 to play and are fellow competitors (say single figure) he is paired with going to be happy playing with when they assumed they have entered a competition with a limit of 20 handicap?

I know, from experience, that Opens are often just seen as playing another club on the cheap for the experience and feel that we want to keep some 'integrity' to the competition.

 

[patricks148]

one of our opens has a limit of 9, the other 5, but that's a scratch and you would be balloted out at 2 most of the time

 

[rulefan]

I have trawled through those bits that I filed but cannot find the specific reference. It must date from about late 2017. One of the problems is that CONGU have revamped their website since so I expect a lot of the documents must have gone in to archive as the new handicaps are now well established.

The actual wording from my memory went something like " Players should not be asked to play off a lower handicap than the one they have".

Our club changed our entry rules in early 2018 based upon that and I heard of others that had done similar because players at our club were saying they could not enter other clubs Opens that they had played in for years.

Two quotes I found.

"When the conditions of a competition impose handicap limits to establish a result it will be a Qualifying Competition provided full handicap allowance is applied for handicap adjustment and record purposes."

"Should the Committee wish to use this option for a match play competition, it is important to note that all players must be allowed to play off their full CONGU handicap, with the full difference between players given (or any approved allowance for format of play)."

 

[jim8flog]

Two quotes I found.

"When the conditions of a competition impose handicap limits to establish a result it will be a Qualifying Competition provided full handicap allowance is applied for handicap adjustment and record purposes."

"Should the Committee wish to use this option for a match play competition, it is important to note that all players must be allowed to play off their full CONGU handicap, with the full difference between players given (or any approved allowance for format of play)."

Thanks but I am very sure what I read was not referencing match play.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks but I am very sure what I read was not referencing match play.

The words you quoted ring a bell. I think it came from a note to clubs from England Golf but I can't now find it. I'll see if I can track it down

 

[Boabski]

IMOP - All Handicap Opens should be max 18 - 1 shot per hole
doesn't matter if your H/C is over 18 - if you want to enter on that day your limit is 18
i know the rules are different but would like to see this happen

 

[*TQ*]

IMOP - All Handicap Opens should be max 18 - 1 shot per hole
doesn't matter if your H/C is over 18 - if you want to enter on that day your limit is 18
i know the rules are different but would like to see this happen

Would you allow a 54 handicapper to play off 18?

 

[Boabski]

Absolutely - totally up to the individual if they want to enter but their handicap for the competition will be 18

 

[peld]

Realise this is an old thread but suppose im using the search function correctly......

I will hopefully get my official handicap next week when i put my 3rd card in at the weekend. It'll likely be in the region of 16-19.

I would like to enter an Open at a nearby course which states "Handicap limit 18." (thats the detail it gives!). If I was given a 19 hcp by my club, can I still enter but i'd be playing off 18?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Realise this is an old thread but suppose im using the search function correctly......

I will hopefully get my official handicap next week when i put my 3rd card in at the weekend. It'll likely be in the region of 16-19.

I would like to enter an Open at a nearby course which states "Handicap limit 18." (thats the detail it gives!). If I was given a 19 hcp by my club, can I still enter but i'd be playing off 18?

Check the small print but that is usually what it means.

edit, just realised that is all they gave you. May be worth dropping them a line just to clarify, no harm in that.

 

[Orikoru]

Some of our major comps are limited by handicap. The singles matchplay is up to 18, while the pairs knockouts are all up to 24. Our open which was last week was up to a max of 36. Some of the other bigger comps have been up to a max of 28. The Club Champs was a max 28, although they did say anyone higher can still enter and just play off 28. Not wanting to exclude anyone from entering I suppose, which is good.

 

[Fabia999]

I have no problems with it but the point of a handicap is for inclusion of the game? Does this handicap limit not defeat the point of having a handicap?

 

[peld]

I have no problems with it but the point of a handicap is for inclusion of the game? Does this handicap limit not defeat the point of having a handicap?

i imagine its to scare the higher handicapper off - if the limit was 18, a 28 handicap just couldnt compete. A guy off 19 with a stroke disadvantage could be competitive on a good day.

 

[Fabia999]

i imagine its to scare the higher handicapper off - if the limit was 18, a 28 handicap just couldnt compete. A guy off 19 with a stroke disadvantage could be competitive on a good day.

Thats exactly my point. I thought handicaps were about inclusion?

 

[peld]

Thats exactly my point. I thought handicaps were about inclusion?

They are not being excluded. But I think for club's premier competitions there needs to be a line somewhere to insure a good standard of golf, without slow play and where handicaps are reliable. Im afraid at higher handicaps there is just too much variation that causes funny results (e.g this year we had 51 points winning a stableford with a guy off 24. He shot 77 gross. Sorry but that is just silly)

 

[rulefan]

It is very common to limit the entry by handicap in order to keep a field size down or to maintain a standard of play. All the major single events do (eg The English Amateur, Players must be In possession of a competition “c” handicap not exceeding 1.4 under the CONGU Unified Handicapping System or a comparable scheme operated by a recognised overseas Golf Union, Federation or Association.)

But see this

https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Competition-handicap-limit-guidance.pdf

 

[peld]

Check the small print but that is usually what it means.

edit, just realised that is all they gave you. May be worth dropping them a line just to clarify, no harm in that.

FYI the club secretary replied - as we thought you can enter above 18, but you'll be off 18 on the day.

 

[rulefan]

FYI the club secretary replied - as we thought you can enter above 18, but you'll be off 18 on the day.

But the handicap system will use your true handicap for any resultant handicap adjustment. The 18 will only be used for prize distribution.

 

[peld]

But the handicap system will use your true handicap for any resultant handicap adjustment. The 18 will only be used for prize distribution.

Another dumb question on that note - are open comp results shared on a national database? I will need my CDH ID to enter, so presume the results go to a database somewhere and back to my club?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Another dumb question on that note - are open comp results shared on a national database? I will need my CDH ID to enter, so presume the results go to a database somewhere and back to my club?

Not necessarily. At my club they are not uploaded onto the system. The cards are looked at manually, the handicaps of the top 3-4 checked to be valid against CDH, prizes given, cards put in the recycle bin. If you wanted your card to count you would either need to ask the club to do it specifically or take a copy of the card and give it to your own club handicap sec after the event. (either copy out another card with the same info on it or take a picture. Someone may confirm which is the best/correct option)

This surprised me when I first saw it, I thought the whole central database thing meant this would happen automatically but that is not the case. Other clubs may do it, this open may for example, but it is not done as a matter of course.

Incidentally, no question is a dumb question and you certainly haven't asked one so far