wjemather
Well-known member
WHS is much easier to police than UHS was.
Handicap manipulation - how to address
- Thread starter Teebs
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
The facilities available to committees are as least as good as those available in UHS. What exactly makes it more difficult?
Last edited:
D-S
Well-known member
I agree that the reports available on the WHS portal make it easier to police possible manipulation than UHS, but they could and should be more user friendly in terms of looking for and alerting patterns of behaviour. Good committees can use the tools at their disposal, bad ones don’t or can’t.
However I strongly believe that the drive for more and more GP scores and the ease of use has meant that they have exponentially increased in both frequency and number than Supplementary Scores. This in turn has created an avenue that can and is exploited for handicap manipulation. This may well have occurred anyway in UHS as Apps would have emerged although I don’t know whether there would have been a drive to increase Supplementary Scores.
The sensitivity of WHS, which is a good thing, equally means that the unscrupulous can move their index quicker - it is a case of with the rough comes the smooth or vice versa.
However I strongly believe that the drive for more and more GP scores and the ease of use has meant that they have exponentially increased in both frequency and number than Supplementary Scores. This in turn has created an avenue that can and is exploited for handicap manipulation. This may well have occurred anyway in UHS as Apps would have emerged although I don’t know whether there would have been a drive to increase Supplementary Scores.
The sensitivity of WHS, which is a good thing, equally means that the unscrupulous can move their index quicker - it is a case of with the rough comes the smooth or vice versa.
rulie
Head Pro
My golf was never governed by UHS, nor did I play under that system, so I have no information to answer that question. My play has been based on the USGA system. The point is that cheaters will cheat any system, and the people administering that system are responsible for outing the cheats - that is what administrators do.
Backache
Assistant Pro
About a hundred million cards coming from outside regular competitions
rulie
Head Pro
I'd hate to try and play on that course! Far too crowded.
Steve Wilkes
Well-known member
Like the football thread, waste of time trying to reason with both the extreme views of some posters on this thread, but this is my take at where we are with WHS, and I'm happy to debated with the middle grounders and even suggest I might be wrong on my points of view and understanding.
1) To me WHS seems a fairer way of allocated an Handicap Index, based on where a golfers ability is at, and I think this covers the 99% of golfers that use the system as intended
2) The big wins or points in most cases (99%) come from the once in a decade exceptional round, normally from the handicap group that have the highest participation or greatest range between their normal scores and the worst and best rounds
I've held this belief for a long time that a players handicap from 6ish to 20ish, doesn't have much to do about how good a golfer you are, but how consistent you are, all golfers in that range can hit a great drive, hit an approach close or hole a 15 footer, but the more inconsistent you are the higher you handicap
The 1% who are manipulating (cheating) their handicap and causing a problem at your club must be easy to spot, they must be competent golfers to go out shoot the score needed at will to clean up, although if they are happy to log on 7 days a week, in the road outside the course and put in a scores they haven't played and coheres a mate to help, then they wouldn't think twice about kicking a ball out of the rough, or putting down a 5 when taking 6. I'm not on the committee at my club, and we don't have a someone who wins every month with 45 points, but come back next week with the same Index, If we did, I think even I would spot it, let alone the handicap committee, and especially at clubs where 95% of the Saturday afternoon chat is about these WHS cheaters.
1) To me WHS seems a fairer way of allocated an Handicap Index, based on where a golfers ability is at, and I think this covers the 99% of golfers that use the system as intended
2) The big wins or points in most cases (99%) come from the once in a decade exceptional round, normally from the handicap group that have the highest participation or greatest range between their normal scores and the worst and best rounds
I've held this belief for a long time that a players handicap from 6ish to 20ish, doesn't have much to do about how good a golfer you are, but how consistent you are, all golfers in that range can hit a great drive, hit an approach close or hole a 15 footer, but the more inconsistent you are the higher you handicap
The 1% who are manipulating (cheating) their handicap and causing a problem at your club must be easy to spot, they must be competent golfers to go out shoot the score needed at will to clean up, although if they are happy to log on 7 days a week, in the road outside the course and put in a scores they haven't played and coheres a mate to help, then they wouldn't think twice about kicking a ball out of the rough, or putting down a 5 when taking 6. I'm not on the committee at my club, and we don't have a someone who wins every month with 45 points, but come back next week with the same Index, If we did, I think even I would spot it, let alone the handicap committee, and especially at clubs where 95% of the Saturday afternoon chat is about these WHS cheaters.
AussieKB
Well-known member
WHS is a United States System that has been bent out of shape by all and sundry to try to make it work in their Country, so is it a World System or just another money making adventure for the lucky few in the know.
rulefan
Tour Winner
"The administration and oversight of handicapping in each country is the responsibility of National Associations or other authorized bodies, which ensures the system
operates effectively and responsively at the local level."
AussieKB
Well-known member
Colin L
Tour Winner
Define what you understand the word “system” to mean in WHS.
AussieKB
Well-known member
HS means exactly what it says.....now World is another matter.....
thought this was one of it's main selling points, we would all be playing under the same System.....
How has that worked out ?
thought this was one of it's main selling points, we would all be playing under the same System.....
How has that worked out ?
wjemather
Well-known member
It has worked out very well, and we are playing under the same system.
Refusing to understand the word "system" won't change that.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Was the UHS Universal?In other words it is not a World System......
No need to reply.
AussieKB
Well-known member
Same system ?
93%
95%
When I went to school those percentages were different.....
but you believe what the Authorities tell you.....
wjemather
Well-known member
Do you truly not understand what a "system" is?
AussieKB
Well-known member
Do you truly not understand what the "same" means ?
Swango1980
Well-known member
No wonder this thread is 85 pages long. It is endless.
Who is going to be the first person to realise that, regardless of what they say, the person they are debating with is going to refuse to take their comments on board, and instead repeat exactly what they have said before? Or, are both sides just trolling each other, and getting a kick out of it?
Who is going to be the first person to realise that, regardless of what they say, the person they are debating with is going to refuse to take their comments on board, and instead repeat exactly what they have said before? Or, are both sides just trolling each other, and getting a kick out of it?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Thought the first couple of pages summed it up
People will always manipulate their HC
The EG App has allowed that to be done a touch easier
And clubs will continue to try their best to combat it
People will always manipulate their HC
The EG App has allowed that to be done a touch easier
And clubs will continue to try their best to combat it
D-S
Well-known member
Agree with this - just would add that “some clubs will continue to try their best to combat it“ and that it is a more than a ‘touch’ easier at certain clubs.
