Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Dunesman]

Don't keep blaming someone or something else for a few players manipulating their handicaps.

I dont. Manipulators have always been with us. I am faulting the system for making manipulation both more easy and possible to greater margins.

Do you dispute the statement that WHS has made it more easy to manipulate ones handicap, and that it can be done to a greater degree more quickly than UHS ?

 

[rulefan]

I dont. Manipulators have always been with us. I am faulting the system for making manipulation both more easy and possible to greater margins.

Do you dispute the statement that WHS has made it more easy to manipulate ones handicap, and that it can be done to a greater degree more quickly than UHS ?

Do you mean that both increasing and reducing handicaps are more open to manipulation? Or that one is more open than the other?
Apart from declaring a false score (in contrivance with the marker), what specific methods have you encountered that are being used to manipulate handicaps.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't happen but I haven't experienced it. I would like to be thought of as a scratch player so I may pick up some tips

 

[D-S]

Do you mean that both increasing and reducing handicaps are more open to manipulation? Or that one is more open than the other?
Apart from declaring a false score (in contrivance with the marker), what specific methods have you encountered that are being used to manipulate handicaps.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't happen but I haven't experienced it. I would like to be thought of as a scratch player so I may pick up some tips

I have seen evidence of players who hardly ever put GP cards in, entering 20+ GP scores over the winter where courses are playing considerably longer and scores at some places are consistently lower - this has resulted in one case of a player going up 4 shots and another 5 with the hard cap in place. These players won competitions in the summer, reverting to their normal comp only habit, with their handicaps slowly reverting to what they were pre winter. They are now being watched carefully.
I also have seen evidence of players consistently putting in high GP scores in batches, which showed a very odd pattern indeed. Impossible to tell if these scores were false or not but looked extremely suspicious. Different actions followed from closer watching, education and sanctions.
Additionally there was the evidence given by James Crampton of players manipulating their handicap downwards to enter elite competitions (3 or 4 examples were given), this was used as explanation for their new conditions of entry around GP scores for elite competitions. Of course in this regards we had some of this going on in UHS, with golfers, pre automated CDH not submitting poor scores from away tournaments to maintain artificially low handicaps.

 

[AussieKB]

Played our Monthly Medal today and flushed it, lip out on the last to shoot my age 71, so level par 72 for nett 67.

Winner off 40 handicap nett 61.......am gutted if only I had holed that putt.

Lost on count back for second to an 18 handicap, but third so am over the f.......moon, well done Oz HS.

 

[rulie]

OZ HS been here for years, have not heard of one person being done for handicap manipulation but everyone knows it is going on, except for the Blind Freddy, one of the main problems IMO is that the System is very easy to Manipulate.

This might be harsh, but maybe nobody is concerned enough to do anything about it (other than whinge)? It's not the system, it's the lack of compliance to the system. The "system" can't do anything about non-compliance, people within the system have to do that.

 

[wjemather]

Played our Monthly Medal today and flushed it, lip out on the last to shoot my age 71, so level par 72 for nett 67.

Winner off 40 handicap nett 61.......am gutted if only I had holed that putt.

Lost on count back for second to an 18 handicap, but third so am over the f.......moon, well done Oz HS.

The result may have been closer but would likely have been no different under any previous system, without employing a handicap limit lower than 36.

You're discontent is caused by playing in big fields against much higher handicaps, not the handicap system. You should be lobbying the organisers of these competitions to apply some common sense.

 

[Dunesman]

Do you mean that both increasing and reducing handicaps are more open to manipulation? Or that one is more open than the other?

Not to dodge your questions, but I think mine is sufficiently self contained to merit an answer as an answer, rather than questions.

 

[rulie]

Not to dodge your questions, but I think mine is sufficiently self contained to merit an answer as an answer, rather than questions.

Do you mean your post is so correct that it can't be questioned? If so, that's a bit pretentious.

 

[Dunesman]

Do you mean your post is so correct that it can't be questioned? If so, that's a bit pretentious.

This is a pretty clean yes or no answer question, thats all :

"Do you dispute the statement that WHS has made it more easy to manipulate ones handicap, and that it can be done to a greater degree more quickly than UHS ?"

 

[clubchamp98]

Played our Monthly Medal today and flushed it, lip out on the last to shoot my age 71, so level par 72 for nett 67.

Winner off 40 handicap nett 61.......am gutted if only I had holed that putt.

Lost on count back for second to an 18 handicap, but third so am over the f.......moon, well done Oz HS.

Jeez only six behind.
Well played though.

 

[rulie]

This is a pretty clean yes or no answer question, thats all :

"Do you dispute the statement that WHS has made it more easy to manipulate ones handicap, and that it can be done to a greater degree more quickly than UHS ?"

Do you dispute that under the UHS player's handicaps were less representative of the player's current form and ability, particularly disadvantaging those of less ability?

 

[rulefan]

Not to dodge your questions, but I think mine is sufficiently self contained to merit an answer as an answer, rather than questions.

Your question was aimed at someone else.

I was simply asking a new question. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your observations about manipulation. But do you believe that such manipulation is being done primarily to increase, or to decrease handicaps? Or both situations in equal measure?
And a new question, do you think it easier under WHS (as opposed to UHS) to manipulate a handicap up or down?

 

[clubchamp98]

This is a pretty clean yes or no answer question, thats all :

"Do you dispute the statement that WHS has made it more easy to manipulate ones handicap, and that it can be done to a greater degree more quickly than UHS ?"

That’s the problem imo.

It’s designed to fluctuate rapidly to the players form and can go up or down rapidly.
That’s a good thing if used properly.

Unfortunately the cheats are using this to their advantage at all levels of the handicap scale.!

 

[Backache]

This might be harsh, but maybe nobody is concerned enough to do anything about it (other than whinge)? It's not the system, it's the lack of compliance to the system. The "system" can't do anything about non-compliance, people within the system have to do that.

I'm sorry but it absolutely is the system, if a system facilitates it it is the system.
Introducing it and then blaming others is an abrogation of responsibility.

 

[rulefan]

I'm sorry but it absolutely is the system, if a system facilitates it it is the system.
Introducing it and then blaming others is an abrogation of responsibility.

How can you not blame cheats for cheating?

 

[clubchamp98]

How can you not blame cheats for cheating?

Cheats will cheat ! But don’t make it easy for them.

 

[Dunesman]

Do you dispute that under the UHS player's handicaps were less representative of the player's current form and ability, particularly disadvantaging those of less ability?

Thats another question not answer.
We can come to yours, but could you answer my question first ?

 

[Dunesman]

Your question was aimed at someone else.

I was simply asking a new question. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your observations about manipulation. But do you believe that such manipulation is being done primarily to increase, or to decrease handicaps? Or both situations in equal measure?
And a new question, do you think it easier under WHS (as opposed to UHS) to manipulate a handicap up or down?

Sorry indeed, mixing up rulie and rulefan.
Would be interested in rulie's clear answer a first shot. Then its worth going deeper to whether its sandbaggers or vanities. Increased ease of manipulation on either of course means manipulation is easier full stop

There does seem to be a flavour in the discussion that distills to various forms of "WHS rules dont permit manipulation, therefore there is no manipulation".

 

[Backache]

How can you not blame cheats for cheating?

The others is not the cheats but people expected to police a system that is intrinsically so much more difficult to police.

 

[wjemather]

There does seem to be a flavour in the discussion that distills to various forms of "WHS rules dont permit manipulation, therefore there is no manipulation".

Yet more drivel. No-one has said anything like that.