Thats why so many Americans never came here. They would loved to have made a trip to play links golf, the premium Open courses, visit StAndrews. But so many just thought - whats the point, they have a different handicap system over there.
Handicap manipulation - how to address
- Thread starter Teebs
- Start date
wjemather
Well-known member
Exaggeration, fallacies and falsehoods (which are the substance of what is being offered) don't make for a compelling argument against WHS... no matter how many times they get repeated.
Bland statements, borderline trivial, but logically true and thus unarguable, that do not address the substantial issue dont make for a compelling defense of WHS either.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Well Ireland and Scotland were mentioned but not by me!Twisting what has been said is certainly not a new one.
We were talking about "useful outcomes" not the reasons for developing the WHS.
Anyway, who is the "we" you're referring to? All of the CONGU countries or just England?
How did I twist what another poster said.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Only what I have seen with my own eyes.
rulie
Head Pro
As my mother would say, "Now children....go to your rooms."
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I was talking about the experts on here.
Declining ability has been brought up many times.
There has been a lot of moving of the goalposts to try to claim WHS as a success.
At is core, it failed to be a single system, and has caused unnecessary collateral damage in aspects that were better before it.
It does look like the Congu associations are just putting their fingers in their ears and hoping people just accept an inferior system and they can then take the resigned eventual muting of criticism to be approval. Their response is disgraceful.
Swango1980
Well-known member
In a parallel universe, where a country actually started with WHS and then changed to what we had before (UHS), I wondered what complaints golfers may have.
I'm sure there would be some. Most notably golfers horrified that it could take years for their handicap to increase, and years to be competitive.
But, there is one complaint that I think would be impossible to make. That UHS makes it easier for cheats and sandbaggers to prosper. There is just no way that would be a logical argument in any way, shape or form.
And yet, going from UHS to WHS, there seem to be a handful of golfers that are blind to how much easier WHS makes it for golfers to increase their handicap intentionally. It is like logic goes out the window, and the only information that is relevant is what the WHS manual says, and the promotional material distributed by the authorities.
There is a chance the authorities will be biased and not willing to share parts of the system that are worse than we had before. Not willing to be critical of the system in public, not until they find a solution behind the scenes, then suddenly they can explain the problem the solution solves. Bit like PCC. Apparently it wasn't a problem and golfers simply didn't understand it properly, then they changed it because they said it wasn't working as they expected
I'm sure there would be some. Most notably golfers horrified that it could take years for their handicap to increase, and years to be competitive.
But, there is one complaint that I think would be impossible to make. That UHS makes it easier for cheats and sandbaggers to prosper. There is just no way that would be a logical argument in any way, shape or form.
And yet, going from UHS to WHS, there seem to be a handful of golfers that are blind to how much easier WHS makes it for golfers to increase their handicap intentionally. It is like logic goes out the window, and the only information that is relevant is what the WHS manual says, and the promotional material distributed by the authorities.
There is a chance the authorities will be biased and not willing to share parts of the system that are worse than we had before. Not willing to be critical of the system in public, not until they find a solution behind the scenes, then suddenly they can explain the problem the solution solves. Bit like PCC. Apparently it wasn't a problem and golfers simply didn't understand it properly, then they changed it because they said it wasn't working as they expected
doublebogey7
Head Pro
I am pretty certain I have not seen so many posts saying the same things just with different words (on both sides) on any subject on these boards.
There has been a lot of moving of the goalposts to try to claim WHS as a success.
At is core, it failed to be a single system, and has caused unnecessary collateral damage in aspects that were better before it.
It does look like the Congu associations are just putting their fingers in their ears and hoping people just accept an inferior system and they can then take the resigned eventual muting of criticism to be approval. Their response is disgraceful.
I assume that as you feel you are in the majority on this subject you have started a campaign within your club to get yourself a place, at the very least, on your County Executive Committee/Board. As part of a longer term goal of overthrowing the Board's of the R&A/USGA or whoever else you feel are responsible. Simply venting your anger on here is clearly going to get you no where execept perhaps an early grave.
rulefan
Tour Winner
What have you done about these incidents?
I would say I am in the minority. But that doesnt mean not correct. The nature of the problem is that it slightly favours the majority, so they will be less inclined to notice in the first place, and have less motivation to object to a system that favours them. And a majority will not have strong feelings about it however good or bad WHS is. But again, that doesnt its incorrect for some of us to identify its weaknesses.
Of course I wont. If you get served a bad coffee, do you go to train as a barista so that the next time you are in the cafe you will go behind the counter and make your own.
We are entitled to point out the flaws in a system we are paying for. 'well do it yourself if you dont like it' is not an acceptable response.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I played with a 5 capper who’s now off 12.
When asked why “ can’t compete of 5”
But he’s done nothing wrong the system allows for people to choose their handicap.
What do I report ?
“ he’s putting cards in” that’s how it’s designed.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Posted with the best of intent...
Or did you play with a 12 handicapper who used to keep a vanity handicap of 5
when asked why "wanted to stay a cat 1 golfer:
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
With the same intentPosted with the best of intent...
Or did you play with a 12 handicapper who used to keep a vanity handicap of 5
when asked why "wanted to stay a cat 1 golfer:
I posted what I meant!
No such thing as a cat 1 now we can be what we want to be just use the system.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Not suggesting it's the same guy
I'm suggesting it's two players and both these guys exist in today's golfing world
wjemather
Well-known member
It absolutely does not allow this.
To be clear though, are you saying this person is lacking in integrity, or that they previously held a handicap that didn't reflect their ability and which they couldn't realistically play anywhere near and WHS enabled this to be quickly corrected?
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes it does, you just won’t admit your baby is flawed.
I’m telling you he’s gone from 5 to 12 put enough cards in anyone can do it.
wjemather
Well-known member
Applying the same fallacious logic, you'd also have to say the rules of golf allows mulligans.
So you're confirming that WHS is working well and is an improvement on UHS, but trying to spin that into a negative.
