GPS Systems

[surefire]

I've noticed a lot of people here use GPS systems.

How much difference do you believe these make?

Also I was wondering how much of the difference is in the mind?
As far as I know civilian GPS systems are only accurate to roughly 15 metres, 95% of the time. Assuming golf GPS systems don't have military technology, then this is quite a big error margin.

Although these systems are legal for PGA events, do any pros use them, or are they not accurate enough?

Any thoughts on this?

 

[toonarmy]

I wouldn't mind betting that people on the Challenge Tour and things like that where they can't afford caddies will start to use them and I can't see how a tournament could ban them given that pros have someone telling them what the gps also tells them.

I think their accuracy is better than you claim though as I believe them to be inside 10yds and frankly for most of us, that's plenty good enough!

 

[USER1999]

If they are accurate to 10 yards, and then you are guessing pin placements too, then you could be out by 20 yards. This is two club lengths difference. Not too good.

I guess if you had a gps to tell you the front and back of the green and distances to hazards, and then a laser range finder for the pin placement, you would have a fair clue for all the details needed.

Then you just have to factor in how well you execute the shot, the wind, the changes in elevation, the run out of the ball, the air density, the amount of grass between the ball and the club, and you will hit the pin every time!

 

[surefire]

I wasn't stating the accuracy as a complete fact. I used to cycle a lot, and even up until last year speedos based on a magnet attached to the wheel that passes a sensor every revolution were more accurate for speed and distance than the GPS systems that were available to the public at the time.

Its possible technology has changed, and the technology is available as the military use it, but is this the stuff that is used in these devices, or is that still to come?

Really I'm asking more than telling, to see what experiences people ahve. Even if the unit isn't 100% accurate, if it makes you feel better and you play better, its worth having.

 

[toonarmy]

murph, you obviously think that gps' are the work of the devil and seem to want to decry them at every opportunity.

Personally, if I knew the yardage to within 5-10yds of the middle of every green (not to mention bunkers etc), I'd be more than happy. All it does is take the guesswork out of how far something is and then help you to decide what club to hit.

After that, the only one to blame is me and I'd much rather that than hit a great shot and see it sail over the green or come up short.

I can't wait to get a decent unit personally and based on the opinions of those on here using them, I think it will help tremendously.

Some on here seem to think that they are useless/cheating/waste of time but I think these people are the ones who are still a bit wary of that electrickery stuff.

 

[USER1999]

You actually have me completely wrong toon. I am stuck squarely in the middle on this one. I don't think it is cheating, and quite enjoyed using the gps in the buggy in florida, but that was a new course that I didn't know. I would be really interested in giving one a go on my home course, to see what it does for me and how much I would use it. I am just not sure about spending £200+ on one, if it ends up in a drawer at home. I am also not sure which is better, gps or laser. It is interesting picking the brains of the guys on here who have this sort of gadget, as the accuracy does not seem to be quoted on the Skycaddie web site, and the Bushnell web site says it is only accurate to a golf pin from 150 yards, which seems short.

I am as confused as everyone else really.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Murph

I can't quote accuracy at you because the simple answer is I don't know. What I can tell you is that I measured every club from 5 wood to LW in a down wind and with the wind into my face and hit 15 balls with each club.

Discounting those that were big hooks or slices (didn't always leave that many!) I used the SC to measure how far the AVERAGE distance was (I simply measured the two furthest edges of the cluster and took the mean average. Having put these down in my strokesaver (for competition use and for reference) when my SC now says its 155 and say the wind is 10-12 mph it is either an easy 5 into or a smooth 6 downwind.

It juts gives me less to worry about. I just decide how strong the wind is, how far I have front centre or back dependant of the pin and know exactly what club I need. I agree with toon and the others on here that say you can have all the infomation in the world but you need to be able to play the game and get the ball going straight first. Even ten years down the line when the technology moves on and these become as acessible as mobile phones it will still boil down to the numpty making sure he's holding the right end of the bat.

If you have any mates that have one (ask your pro as most of the ones round my way all use it) try it out on your home course. I think you will be pretty surprised at how far some carrys over trouble (bunkers etc) actually are from say your normal landing spot on the fairway.

One one hole I always thought the bunker short was about 210 and could never understand why a 3 hybrid or 5 wood always got me in trouble. Turned out it was only 187 and so I was hitting straight into my landing zone. DOH!

 

[toonarmy]

Fairy snuff.

I am also reticent to spend more money on a GPS device for golf than I did for my car! Very frustrated that I can't get software for the satnav that does the golf - why make me buy another device that eseentially is doing the same job? Grrr.

GM - FUGS demand a feature on these cursed devices!

 

[USER1999]

We have just had a notice go up on the board allowing use of such devices in comps. So no need for a stoke saver any more (if you have the gadget).

I only really play strange courses in societies and club matches, where I am not sure what the response would be if I pulled out a gps. So £200+ is a lot just to play my own course with one.

Homer, I can see your point, but once you have done this (both measuring each club, and also getting a feel for distances on the course), how much is it really used now? You must now have a feel for distances having used it a few times. I am surprised there aren't more of these 2nd hand on ebay, as I bet a lot are gathering dust somewhere.

The other thing is that on my course, which is mainly in trees, the opportunity to be on another fairway is limited. On the few occasions you are, and you have a shot, it is nearly always limiteed to what club you can get over the trees, not which one will get you to the green.

I will have to ask around and see if anyone has one I can try, because I like the idea, but am not sure how much I would use it.

 

[billyg]

I think it's fairly widely known that most GPS networks piggyback off what are essentially military satellites (just read the small print on any GPS you buy about service limitations)

It's also widely known that the sensitivity of domestic devices are 'de-tuned' somewhat. Having said that most systems (including Garmin and SkyCaddie which seems to have a sub-let arrangement with Garmin) now have an additional signal augumentation system for greater accuracy.

My old Garmin GPS has a marked circle which shows the radius of the accuracy and it seems to expand and contract in sympathy with a combination of the following:-

1) Amount of satellites available overhead - more satellites = better triangulation (minimum needed 3).

2) Buildings - lots of tall buildings , structures or even I daresay trees= worse signal

3) overcast weather seems to affect it but goodness knows why

as for golf , well even if theres a 10 meter buffer zone it's still better than me trying to squint down the fairway and calculate a distance in a unit of measurement(yards) I simply have no use for anywhere else in life.

Strokesaver - fair enough but I think they are somtimes tweaked for artistic or dramatic effect and where exactly is 'Silver Birch'? which one? there seems to be five of them - pah.

My old Garmin GPS would be useless for golf as underlying the actual co-ordination is a 'base map'. The base maps for anything other than roads in the UK are completely pitiful in their level of detail with the exception of a few OS based systems such a Magellan but still no good for golf IMHO.

on the old system if I navigate to my golf course and zoom in to any meaningful level I find i'm a dot on a blank screen- pointless.

 

[matthewsgolf]

it would be nice to see existing sat navs (tom tom etc) have an update of golf course maps (maybe through google earth etc) the one thing that i think is missing from skycadie is an overhead view of the hole (like a scoresaver etc)

 

[surefire]

To add a bit more to this, technically you need 4 satelites if you want to take into account elevation, which can affect club selection.

To back up my initial thought on GPS accuracy, a quote from Garmin themselves

"Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters on average." 15 metres (16.5 yards) could easily be 2 clubs for some people, and thats not even taking into account errors due to pin position.

as for billyg stating yards have no use, apart from golf in the UK imperial measurements are still used on roads, lots of mechanical devices still use imperial sizes, and most people know their height in feet & inches. This suggests yards have use other than golf.

 

[nige]

surefire, gps for golf courses to be legal cannot tell you elevation or wind speed, only distances. i have the caddy light which quotes 1-2 yards accuracy in normal usage?, mine normally picks up 8 satelites so maybe greater accuracy?, anyway i love my gadgets and this 1 is worth the £130 i paid from dg. its funny that when i play all my playing partners ask how far to the pin nige lol

 

[madandra]

When I got mine Marko 77 said to watch how many of my playing partners would start to stretch their legs when they have walked past my bag.


It is amazing how many folks need to walk past YOUR bag to get to THEIR ball.

 

[surefire]

To any of the previous posters - Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-GPS, just everyones looked at the positives, so I am curious to explore any possible negatives.

I have never really considered a GPS, not for any reason just the thought of getting one never crossed my mind. I guess it helps that the Motocaddy S3 I have has a few counters for measuring distances travelled etc, so I just tend to work off these.

 

[USER1999]

I have read an email from Garmin on another web site regarding their golf gps which quotes + or minus 3 yards. It also says that no one elses will be more accurate (or less accurate) than this, as this is where technology is at. This is accurate enough for most of us.

 

[surefire]

Just seen the same site Murph. I guess these things are pretty accurate then, def enough for the average golfer.

Maybe I'll even turn to the dark side and get one!

 

[SammmeBee]

You can get more 'sensitive' devices (ie they have a better actuall GPS thingy in them) but it's the same with everything the more accurate, the more expensive.

I am led to believe that Sky Caddie use a more accurate GPS thingy in their units that anyone else, only they actually measure all their courses with real people (they use golf pros and it takes them about a day), whereas the other manufacturers might not be so considerate......

 

[USER1999]

Sky caddie I think are the only ones who do it 'on the ground'. Others use satelite pictures to map, which is clearly not as accurate.

But this accuracy is to do with where the hazards are, and where the greens are.

The gps positions you to within +/- 3 yards. There is then an additional tolerance to apply as to where the distance is measured to (and how accurate it was measured originally).

In this, Sky caddie do appear to have the edge, as theirs is measured 'on site'.

 

[Canfordhacker]

I have a garmin unit I bought for walking a few years ago. It has no low level mapping, so my Golf club is a blank screen. It shows current accuracy, and this goes as a low as 12 feet. I stood on each tee and in the middle of each green and recorded a way marker, plus a couple of hazards (the edge of the water on the 18th). This means I can accurately measure drives, distance to those hazards and middle of every green. I know where I was standing when marked them, so I'm not relying on anybody else. My mates took the mick, but when I carry it they are keen to know how their estimates measure up to reality.

I only carry it occasionally - I still have to hit the shots, indulge my love of gadgets and stats. Love it! Only works on my course, but saddo that I am I have considered taking lat and long from Google earth for courses I'm due to visit and entering them...