Golf Random Irritations

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I guess they decided that was too much work, identifying each club. Easier to revert back to the previous system.

Then that’s worse. They can’t be bothered identifying or dealing with clubs that breach rules so just make everyone suffer. A club shouldn’t have to appeal to have its course on preferred lies to a group who have no dealings or knowledge of that course.

We’ve applied and been told no! Yet it’s sorely needed so it clearly isn’t dealt with properly on a case by case basis and decisions are made by people usually with zero qualifications.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

And it’s worth remembering it’s a golf random irritation

Then that’s worse. They can’t be bothered identifying or dealing with clubs that breach rules so just make everyone suffer. A club shouldn’t have to appeal to have its course on preferred lies to a group who have no dealings or knowledge of that course.

We’ve applied and been told no! Yet it’s sorely needed so it clearly isn’t dealt with properly on a case by case basis and decisions are made by people usually with zero qualifications.

I bet you were told no over email or phone as well - they won’t even bother visiting the course


A couple years back a course asked for an extension, the county said no , two weeks after the hosted a county event and allowed preferred lies for the event on that course

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

And it’s worth remembering it’s a golf random irritation


I bet you were told no over email or phone as well - they won’t even bother visiting the course


A couple years back a course asked for an extension, the county said no , two weeks after the hosted a county event and allowed preferred lies for the event on that course

As far as I am aware it was over email and there hasn’t been a visit

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So you ask the ex post man or factory worker if you can keep preferred lies on as opposed to the qualified greenkeeper - lots of inconsistencies within the abilities of counties just like there is at clubs

But is it the greenkeeper keeping PL on all year or is it the club committee? If the GK is keeping them on all year then I'd suggest they are being overly protective.

Alternatively, have them all year and accept they are non qualifying from April to Oct

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But is it the greenkeeper keeping PL on all year or is it the club committee? If the GK is keeping them on all year then I'd suggest they are being overly protective.

Alternatively, have them all year and accept they are non qualifying from April to Oct

For us it’s a combination or the head of greens , comps , Head pro and GK

Why do they need to be Non Q from April to Oct if preferred lies are on , what the significance difference between April and Mayb

 

[Arthur Wedge]

As far as I am aware it was over email and there hasn’t been a visit

Amazing how they can judge a golf course without visiting

 

[D-S]

There is no question of Counties trying to 'punish' clubs - why on earth would they want to do that?

Again if every decision was made by highly qualified greenkeepers in discussion with diligent knowledgeable Committees then, of course, clubs should simply be able to do what they want when they want. Sadly, this is certainly not the case and the rationale for doing it like this for years, with a single year exception which proved problematic in many cases, is for exactly this reason.

Counties are not power hungry, stuffed shirts idiots, they are mainly volunteers trying their level best to make certain that clubs follow rules in order that there is uniformity and equivalence in competitions and handicapping in order to make goldf more enjoyable for all fee paying County members.

If clubs were all as the two people here claim then fine but with many years of experience of dealing with the vast range of questionable opinions. ignorance and laziness as well as many many diligent, informed hardworking committees I unfortunately think that having checks and balances in the system are necessary.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

For us it’s a combination or the head of greens , comps , Head pro and GK

Why do they need to be Non Q from April to Oct if preferred lies are on , what the significance difference between April and Mayb

Well, golf is meant to be played with the ball 'as it lies'. If you have a perfect lie all year around then everyone at that club is gaining an advantage. There are exceptions for when the weather is poor but otherwise perfect is not how the game is played.

 

[D-S]

Amazing how they can judge a golf course without visiting

The one request we had was from a club who we know are sensible, course conditions were discussed as were remedial efforts in certain areas. We accepted their view and they are playing 'qualifying' golf this weekend with preferred lies in force. They undertook to review it after works are completed and after forecast rain has or not improved the situation. They will keep us advised as to their decision next week.

No drama, no fuss. The Club is now better informed and were grateful for our help and can explain the situation to their members.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

There is no question of Counties trying to 'punish' clubs - why on earth would they want to do that?

Again if every decision was made by highly qualified greenkeepers in discussion with diligent knowledgeable Committees then, of course, clubs should simply be able to do what they want when they want. Sadly, this is certainly not the case and the rationale for doing it like this for years, with a single year exception which proved problematic in many cases, is for exactly this reason.

Counties are not power hungry, stuffed shirts idiots, they are mainly volunteers trying their level best to make certain that clubs follow rules in order that there is uniformity and equivalence in competitions and handicapping in order to make goldf more enjoyable for all fee paying County members.

If clubs were all as the two people here claim then fine but with many years of experience of dealing with the vast range of questionable opinions. ignorance and laziness as well as many many diligent, informed hardworking committees I unfortunately think that having checks and balances in the system are necessary.

My experience off the county administration is a little different with them being very incompetent over the years

They are volunteers- ones at times without the necessary skills or expertise to make judgments on golf courses , the current ones can’t even set up a competition on IG properly or administer it properly

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Well, golf is meant to be played with the ball 'as it lies'. If you have a perfect lie all year around then everyone at that club is gaining an advantage. There are exceptions for when the weather is poor but otherwise perfect is not how the game is played.

So have play as it lies all year round then ,remove mats

If “everyone” at the club has the same choice what’s the “advantage” that they gain

 

[D-S]

My experience off the county administration is a little different with them being very incompetent over the years

They are volunteers- ones at times without the necessary skills or expertise to make judgments on golf courses , the current ones can’t even set up a competition on IG properly or administer it properly

Maybe get some of your club's experts to volunteer to work for the County. If not you could always disaffiliate and go your own way.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

There is no question of Counties trying to 'punish' clubs - why on earth would they want to do that?

Again if every decision was made by highly qualified greenkeepers in discussion with diligent knowledgeable Committees then, of course, clubs should simply be able to do what they want when they want. Sadly, this is certainly not the case and the rationale for doing it like this for years, with a single year exception which proved problematic in many cases, is for exactly this reason.

Counties are not power hungry, stuffed shirts idiots, they are mainly volunteers trying their level best to make certain that clubs follow rules in order that there is uniformity and equivalence in competitions and handicapping in order to make goldf more enjoyable for all fee paying County members.

If clubs were all as the two people here claim then fine but with many years of experience of dealing with the vast range of questionable opinions. ignorance and laziness as well as many many diligent, informed hardworking committees I unfortunately think that having checks and balances in the system are necessary.

It’s all well and good saying checks and balances should be in place. But where are the checks of someone making a decision hiding behind an email and not actually going to check the course! That is equally as lazy and not diligent as your claiming the clubs to be !

Well, golf is meant to be played with the ball 'as it lies'. If you have a perfect lie all year around then everyone at that club is gaining an advantage. There are exceptions for when the weather is poor but otherwise perfect is not how the game is played.

There’s a difference between play as it lies and protecting a golf course from further damage. As mentioned above ours has several brown spots and areas that are suffering from lack of growth.

I’m all for play as it lies I prefer it. But I also like many others pay a lot of money for a club membership and we want to course to be looked after. If a county member with the right qualifications came out saw the course and said no it’s fine it’s going to remain play as it lies. Then nobody would take issue with it as it’s been judge by a qualified person, but the fact it’s done by an email with zero checks and zero qualified reason is not acceptable.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The one request we had was from a club who we know are sensible, course conditions were discussed as were remedial efforts in certain areas. We accepted their view and they are playing 'qualifying' golf this weekend with preferred lies in force. They undertook to review it after works are completed and after forecast rain has or not improved the situation. They will keep us advised as to their decision next week.

No drama, no fuss. The Club is now better informed and were grateful for our help and can explain the situation to their members.

So you don’t inspect any course

If they are sensible then they make their own choice as opposed going through wasted time motions

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Maybe get some of your club's experts to volunteer to work for the County. If not you could always disaffiliate and go your own way.

People have and been turned down due to “old man’s club”

And the club experts will focus on ensure the club is at its best

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So have play as it lies all year round then ,remove mats

If “everyone” at the club has the same choice what’s the “advantage” that they gain

Artificially lower handicaps compared to others in the area. As people then point out, that means some will qualify for comps they shouldn't really be eligible for, at the expense of someone who should.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Artificially lower handicaps compared to others in the area. As people then point out, that means some will qualify for comps they shouldn't really be eligible for, at the expense of someone who should.

Preferred lies won’t be giving people artificially lower handicaps by any stretch - if the difference is that significant between play as it lies and preferred lies on a fairway then the club is right to be on them

 

[D-S]

It’s all well and good saying checks and balances should be in place. But where are the checks of someone making a decision hiding behind an email and not actually going to check the course! That is equally as lazy and not diligent as your claiming the clubs to be !



There’s a difference between play as it lies and protecting a golf course from further damage. As mentioned above ours has several brown spots and areas that are suffering from lack of growth.

I’m all for play as it lies I prefer it. But I also like many others pay a lot of money for a club membership and we want to course to be looked after. If a county member with the right qualifications came out saw the course and said no it’s fine it’s going to remain play as it lies. Then nobody would take issue with it as it’s been judge by a qualified person, but the fact it’s done by an email with zero checks and zero qualified reason is not acceptable.

I'm not sure why there is all this seeming hatred for people who are, in the vast, vast majority, just trying to make golf a fair and enjoyable for members across their County. I don't recognise these seeming stereotypes that are being painted in any way, shape or form.

If necessary we would, of course, visit any course that requested it and help the club come to the correct decision. We have never turned down such a request, however in most cases a discussion is held over the phone or over email and if parties are happy with the outcome then everyone's a winner. If a club wasn't happy we would be only too happy to inspect any areas etc., talk with the Head Greenkeeper and go through in detail all the options a club would have.

The last thing we want is to have disgruntled clubs, however we also have a duty to ensure fairness across clubs.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I'm not sure why there is all this seeming hatred for people who are, in the vast, vast majority, just trying to make golf a fair and enjoyable for members across their County. I don't recognise these seeming stereotypes that are being painted in any way, shape or form.

If necessary we would, of course, visit any course that requested it and help the club come to the correct decision. We have never turned down such a request, however in most cases a discussion is held over the phone or over email and if parties are happy with the outcome then everyone's a winner. If a club wasn't happy we would be only too happy to inspect any areas etc., talk with the Head Greenkeeper and go through in detail all the options a club would have.

The last thing we want is to have disgruntled clubs, however we also have a duty to ensure fairness across clubs.

Where’s the hatred ! Just because people don’t agree doesn’t mean we’re hating anyone. Also just because someone is a volunteer doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be open to criticism especially if what is being received is poor service.

Fair play to anyone that volunteers to do anything whether that be golf, charity or anything. But if you do volunteer then a job is still worth doing properly and if clubs or customers aren’t getting what they feel is quality service they have every right to complain and call it out. That isn’t hatred it’s a basic right everyone has.

I appreciate perhaps your county is doing it right and going out to check clubs. But there are many others mine and clearly @Arthur Wedge county aren’t going out to do the required checks. That is poor service and rightly so should be called out as such regardless of that being a voluntary role or not, equally the person going out to clubs if they actually do should be qualified to the level of the greenkeepers to make a properly informed and qualified decision. It shouldn’t be someone that has no skill set sat behind a computer sending an email that just says no.

Anyway I’ve nothing else to add other than it’s not hatred it’s a perfectly valid and acceptable irritation and opinion.

 

[Neilds]

Are these highly qualified greenkeepers the same ones who allow the course to stay open when it is barely playable, allowing damage to the course and then trying to cover this by trying to have PL all year? Sometimes the greenkeepers make decisions that are not based on what is best for the course, but what is best for the club - different things.