Golf Petition to the Government

[HomerJSimpson]

Like most I am disappointed with the ban, but can understand the rationale - lump golf with all other similar activities to simplify things.

Remember, whilst golf may involve "practically" no risk, some risk will remain, and of course those participating are likely to contain a higher percentage of older, more higher risk individuals than, say, tennis. Even if the risk is almost zero, surely one single golfer contracting it via golf and, god forbid dying because he or she was elderly and higher risk, is one too many.
A really difficult decision that had to be made. I don't support it wholeheartedly but I can understand why it was taken. For those who say there is no science behind it, can they say there is science to prove it is safe? Im not sure there is.

I think Ethan would be the one to answer the risk element. I get what you're saying especially the risk amongst the senior sections of clubs and would that risk increase when clubhouses and bars reopen. I guess ultimately, it is down to an individual especially one with significant underlying health conditions, to make their own risk assessment as to whether it is safe to play

 

[Wildboy370]

Golfers say there is no chance of catching virus through golf, church officials say the same about church worship, pubs/restaurants say the same about hospitality, etc, etc, so where on earth are all these cases coming from??

Schools universities and supermarkets.I live in a small village which at start of sept had zero cases. Then then opened the large secondary school. Lots of kids wandering about at lunch times in the cafes and shops. We now have in excess of thirty cases. As long as we have all these places open we will not be rid of this thing for a long long time. Yet they say two people who can walk together cannot carry a bag of pig iron and hit a lump of plastic as that increases the risk. Once you lose the common sense argument with the public you lose the argument for everything and in this second lock down the roads have have never been busier as people cannot make any sense of it. You can shop in supermarket touching lord knows what with a mass of people, but can’t go to a local shop who can far better control people flow, sanitisation..

 

[Dibby]

What I find most inetresting about all of this is why the government response seems to be so one dimensionally focused on Covid. Im not one of those who think it's not real, or any of that, it's clearly serious, but why is it more serious than anything else?

Total global covid deaths up to now are about 1.35m. To put that into some meaningful perspective, look at the total deaths by other causes from 2017 below. Should we ban cars because road deaths are just as deadly? All the sports banned likely put more people at risk from the biggest killer of them all cardiovascular disease.

I'm not saying Covid is not worth bothering about, but in the scheme of things it's getting a lot of attention at the expense of other things that are just as, if not more damaging to life.

 

[YandaB]

What I find most inetresting about all of this is why the government response seems to be so one dimensionally focused on Covid. Im not one of those who think it's not real, or any of that, it's clearly serious, but why is it more serious than anything else?

Total global covid deaths up to now are about 1.35m. To put that into some meaningful perspective, look at the total deaths by other causes from 2017 below. Should we ban cars because road deaths are just as deadly? All the sports banned likely put more people at risk from the biggest killer of them all cardiovascular disease.

I'm not saying Covid is not worth bothering about, but in the scheme of things it's getting a lot of attention at the expense of other things that are just as, if not more damaging to life.

Presumambly because people with these diseases present themselves to the medical care services over a period of the year and it is known how many of each on average will be arriving. Doing nothing to prevent covid means that in a small number of weeks/months, you would get all of the people that are going to suffer from it requiring treatment at the same time. Even with activities around the world Covid is into the top 10 in the list above. These other diseases are all being treated and cures/prevention activities are improving all the time for most of them so are not being ignored.

 

[BubbaP]

What I find most inetresting about all of this is why the government response seems to be so one dimensionally focused on Covid. Im not one of those who think it's not real, or any of that, it's clearly serious, but why is it more serious than anything else?

Total global covid deaths up to now are about 1.35m. To put that into some meaningful perspective, look at the total deaths by other causes from 2017 below. Should we ban cars because road deaths are just as deadly? All the sports banned likely put more people at risk from the biggest killer of them all cardiovascular disease.

I'm not saying Covid is not worth bothering about, but in the scheme of things it's getting a lot of attention at the expense of other things that are just as, if not more damaging to life.

As we know you can use stats to show most things. If you are questioning the government response (I assume UK) then using worldwide stats seems a bit disingenuous. Europe being the worst hit continent and the UK amongst the worst few in Europe. I'd also highlight earlier in the year real evidence of parts of Italy and places like New York being overwhelmed around the ICUs. Now whether that is a real risk going forward in UK is worthy of debate - I certainly don't know, but on balance would prefer not to find out..

 

[BubbaP]

Like most I am disappointed with the ban, but can understand the rationale - lump golf with all other similar activities to simplify things.

Remember, whilst golf may involve "practically" no risk, some risk will remain, and of course those participating are likely to contain a higher percentage of older, more higher risk individuals than, say, tennis. Even if the risk is almost zero, surely one single golfer contracting it via golf and, god forbid dying because he or she was elderly and higher risk, is one too many.
A really difficult decision that had to be made. I don't support it wholeheartedly but I can understand why it was taken. For those who say there is no science behind it, can they say there is science to prove it is safe? Im not sure there is.

Agree. I think it could have carried on, and hope it comes back.
I do find the "two people walking in a big field" line that is trotted out a bit tiresome though. Yes that part is fine, but in reality I'm sure most of us have seen behaviours before, after, and sometimes during the round that hasn't been the best. There were plenty on social media also.
Finally the staff are often forgotten about - might they be in more risk than the golfers in what rightly or wrongly has been deemed non-essential.

 

[4LEX]

I was in favour of courses being closed as everyone has to do their bit but right now I'm close to getting my clubs, walking onto the nearest course and happily taking a £200 fine.

Why should we take a hit when theres kids/parents mixing in playgrounds with no social distancing? Shops that aren't essential open and garden centres packed to the rafters?!

England Golf and the R&A should be ashamed for letting this happen.

 

[Mandofred]

Presumambly because people with these diseases present themselves to the medical care services over a period of the year and it is known how many of each on average will be arriving. Doing nothing to prevent covid means that in a small number of weeks/months, you would get all of the people that are going to suffer from it requiring treatment at the same time. Even with activities around the world Covid is into the top 10 in the list above. These other diseases are all being treated and cures/prevention activities are improving all the time for most of them so are not being ignored.

And.....there is the problem. These other diseases are being put off in a lot of cases because of the focus on Covid. Operations that are needed cancelled, people not bothering to even go to the Dr because of the hassle, cancer procedures etc with even more time before treatment starts etc etc. If I had just been diagnosed with cancer and I was having to wait a long time before it could actually be treated.....I'd be a bit miffed......and scared. Plenty of studies out there.....here is one. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4087

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I was in favour of courses being closed as everyone has to do their bit but right now I'm close to getting my clubs, walking onto the nearest course and happily taking a £200 fine.

Why should we take a hit when theres kids/parents mixing in playgrounds with no social distancing? Shops that aren't essential open and garden centres packed to the rafters?!

England Golf and the R&A should be ashamed for letting this happen.

How about saying those flocking to shop at those places you speak of be ashamed themselves of their actions.
If somone is urinating up your garden wall, are you to blame for putting it there or the person whos urinating on it?

 

[Mandofred]

How about saying those flocking to shop at those places you speak of be ashamed themselves of their actions.
If somone is urinating up your garden wall, are you to blame for putting it there or the person whos urinating on it?

So.....you want everybody to take responsibility for their actions? I agree. But.....there are a decent amount of people out there who won't. That's why we have police, etc etc. If everybody did what they should there wouldn't be a million non-repaired divots on the golf course....you can't trust the golfers either unfortunately.....it's more than just a few golfers. As much as I don't like the golf courses shut...and don't think they need to be....I can understand them doing it. I just don't understand all the other loop holes where people are allowed to mix closely. Oh well....

 

[4LEX]

How about saying those flocking to shop at those places you speak of be ashamed themselves of their actions.

I do blame them no doubt but you can't teach stupid. I blame the government more for turning a blind eye and their slipshod and random policies on this.

This government is weak and has performed a plethora of U turns when it's faced any opposition. If every golf club opened up and said take us to court another U turn would follow. Forget petitions or discussions it needs action.

 

[Dibby]

As we know you can use stats to show most things. If you are questioning the government response (I assume UK) then using worldwide stats seems a bit disingenuous. Europe being the worst hit continent and the UK amongst the worst few in Europe. I'd also highlight earlier in the year real evidence of parts of Italy and places like New York being overwhelmed around the ICUs. Now whether that is a real risk going forward in UK is worthy of debate - I certainly don't know, but on balance would prefer not to find out..

You mean ICUs being overwhelmed by people being put on ventilators which we later discovered wasn't the best treatment protocol?

Let me reiterate, I don't think covid isn't real, I don't think it isn't serious. I think the singular focus on it is a big problem though. Everything else is being thrown out the window. The sad reality of the world is that lives do actually have a cost, not a nice thought when it's your loved one suffering, but still just as true. Put it this way, in the UK the mean age of death due to covid is 80, the median is 83, the usual life expectency in the UK is 81. So all this cost and disruption is effectively to give one extra year of life expectency. Does that seem a worthwhile trade off? What about the future where people with other diseases who have been overlooked, people who drop into the cycle of poverty and unemployment, and even mental illness caused by isolation? Do we just screw them for the very small subset that would be impacted by covid?

Again, I'm not saying we should do nothing, just the cost/benefit ratio seems to be very out of whack.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

You mean ICUs being overwhelmed by people being put on ventilators which we later discovered wasn't the best treatment protocol?

Let me reiterate, I don't think covid isn't real, I don't think it isn't serious. I think the singular focus on it is a big problem though. Everything else is being thrown out the window. The sad reality of the world is that lives do actually have a cost, not a nice thought when it's your loved one suffering, but still just as true. Put it this way, in the UK the mean age of death due to covid is 80, the median is 83, the usual life expectency in the UK is 81. So all this cost and disruption is effectively to give one extra year of life expectency. Does that seem a worthwhile trade off? What about the future where people with other diseases who have been overlooked, people who drop into the cycle of poverty and unemployment, and even mental illness caused by isolation? Do we just screw them for the very small subset that would be impacted by covid?

Again, I'm not saying we should do nothing, just the cost/benefit ratio seems to be very out of whack.

You could argue the same about keeping old people alive in normal times. The cost of keeping old people alive for a few extra months must be staggering.

At what age do you draw the line? Anyone over 80 gets cancer. Sorry, no treatment as the cost outweighs the benifits.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You mean ICUs being overwhelmed by people being put on ventilators which we later discovered wasn't the best treatment protocol?

Let me reiterate, I don't think covid isn't real, I don't think it isn't serious. I think the singular focus on it is a big problem though. Everything else is being thrown out the window. The sad reality of the world is that lives do actually have a cost, not a nice thought when it's your loved one suffering, but still just as true. Put it this way, in the UK the mean age of death due to covid is 80, the median is 83, the usual life expectency in the UK is 81. So all this cost and disruption is effectively to give one extra year of life expectency. Does that seem a worthwhile trade off? What about the future where people with other diseases who have been overlooked, people who drop into the cycle of poverty and unemployment, and even mental illness caused by isolation? Do we just screw them for the very small subset that would be impacted by covid?

Again, I'm not saying we should do nothing, just the cost/benefit ratio seems to be very out of whack.

Everything you are saying is after 9-10 months of tackling this head on though, if the decision had been to do nothing nobody knows were the mean age of death to Covid would of landed, it could of been 75 or 85, is that more acceptable? The deaths could of been in the hundreds of thousands, is that more acceptable?

We are were we are due to the actions taken around the World and all taken for the right reasons.

Maybe in the future once we have all the evidence and this disease is put in the past we could discuss the financial impact.