Golf clubs low on membership

[Tashyboy]

Always find it a bit odd when I read these threads about low membership. I just cannot relate to it. I know ave said it before and al say it again. Our club is proactive in getting members and the general public through the door. The letter below is the latest plaudit for one of our pros. Are clubs just sitting back and waiting for Mohammad to come to the mountain.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

One of the difficulties with this is a golf club acts like a fixed cost business. Whether you have 10 or 100 players a day the cost of staff, greenkeeping, pro. etc is the same. So a bit like hotels or airlines which have a similar model you need to make a choice. Either go for volume on the basis that any extra are all profit (visitors, societies or members) or go for exclusivity and attract enough people who are willing to pay the price. Getting caught in the middle is the problem.

The are lots of clubs that can make the latter model work and many that can make the former work but as recent press articles show both can go badly wrong. As a member you have to decide which you want and can afford. I think the choice will get less over time as courses continue to close.

Disagree, 100 golfers a day will cause considerably more wear and tear than 10 on the course, clubhouse an even areas like the car park.
Clubs who reduce green fees during the winter months are pretty foolish in my view.

One of my old clubs averaged over 200 players a day for the busy 8 months. That comes at a cost.

 

[Papas1982]

Disagree, 100 golfers a day will cause considerably more wear and tear than 10 on the course, clubhouse an even areas like the car park.
Clubs who reduce green fees during the winter months are pretty foolish in my view.

One of my old clubs averaged over 200 players a day for the busy 8 months. That comes at a cost.

Say the day rate is cheap. Maybe £20. Is club really gonna be worse (if it allows nomads for 100 days during the summer) with £180,000 in the bank?

 

[ger147]

Say the day rate is cheap. Maybe £20. Is club really gonna be worse (if it allows nomads for 100 days during the summer) with £180,000 in the bank?

Just checking your sums. To get £180k in 100 days at £20 a round, you would need 90 visitors per day playing.

Where are you going to get 90 visitors a day from and when do the members get to play if 90 visitors per day are playing your course?

 

[Papas1982]

Just checking your sums. To get £180k in 100 days at £20 a round, you would need 90 visitors per day playing.

Where are you going to get 90 visitors a day from and when do the members get to play if 90 visitors per day are playing your course?

I was simply using the numbers given by Doon (as seen on my post in which i respond). He says 100 visitors a day are worse than 10. He actually quoted 8 months too. So i guess £180k was me being conservative....

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Always find it a bit odd when I read these threads about low membership. I just cannot relate to it. I know ave said it before and al say it again. Our club is proactive in getting members and the general public through the door. The letter below is the latest plaudit for one of our pros. Are clubs just sitting back and waiting for Mohammad to come to the mountain.

On the whole I'd say yes they are. The better ones are proactive in a smart way, like your club. The others either sit back or are old fashioned in their approach, and so largely unsuccessful. That is my own experience. Be grateful you are at a good club

 

[trevor]

Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how a golf club knows when it’s full. Who sets the limits? If a club has 500 members and someone comes along with his £1000 and asks to join are they going to say sorry we’re full?

 

[ger147]

Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how a golf club knows when it’s full. Who sets the limits? If a club has 500 members and someone comes along with his £1000 and asks to join are they going to say sorry we’re full?

Many say exactly that and the clubs that do operate a waiting list.

 

[duncan mackie]

Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how a golf club knows when it’s full. Who sets the limits? If a club has 500 members and someone comes along with his £1000 and asks to join are they going to say sorry we’re full?

It will depend on the type of club.

A members club will have a set membership, and everything will be openly accounted in terms of how many at any time, income etc

A proprietary will have somewhat more nominal numbers and, in the absence of a waiting list, the concept of a full membership will lie with the management.

 

[shortgame]

When you factor in weather changes, people having other choice etc it leaves far to many variables to predict income from these just because a certain amount was achieved in previous years.

Agree. Add in neighbouring clubs undercutting each other offering cheap green fees (of which they only receive half and the intermediaries the other half).

Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how a golf club knows when it’s full. Who sets the limits? If a club has 500 members and someone comes along with his £1000 and asks to join are they going to say sorry we’re full?

Yes. Potentially. If the club is financially healthy.

There are only so many available tee times in a day. I know a few clubs who are full who are having complaints from members who can't book tee times because all the slots are regularly full most weekends (especially during a mild winter like we are currently enjoying).

It's not just membership numbers it's the profile. One club I mention has always had a full membership (450 or so) even with a sizeable joining fee, however whereas in years gone by a large % were infrequent players, currently the vast majority are very active.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Slightly off topic but I’ve never worked out how a golf club knows when it’s full. Who sets the limits? If a club has 500 members and someone comes along with his £1000 and asks to join are they going to say sorry we’re full?

Our numbers are set out in the rules and constitution as to how many we can have in each section (male, female and junior members)

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Not for me, thank you; more than happy to play other courses but I'd always look for something at least as good if not better than my home course if I'm choosing to go away & pay a green fee.

I do not think like that, have played some 'rubbish' courses that I would love to go back to more than a number of the top 100 course I have played. I do like to have variety. Think I am much more of okis mind set with regards to like playing different courses .

Would not liked to have missed out playing courses like church stretton, Bamburgh, Kendal and Kirby Lonsdale that spring to mind and want to really return to but are far from top courses and rated worse than a few of the courses I am member at, I also travel down to Essex for a couple of days a year to play on as such 'poor' courses and wouldn't wish to miss playing them. Everyone to their own

 

[upsidedown]

On a slightly different tack I love being a member, never get tired of playing my home course but yet still managed to play another 56 courses last year, benefits of semi retirement and being self employed.
One of the benefits of being a member is the other members and the friendships and connections that come with that membership. We are currently sitting in a very swish 4 bedroom villa in Portugal courtesy of one of those connections and will be catching up with other members later in the week. I get my car serviced at Mates rates now and also have, without looking for them have gained another 10 customers to finance my away days.
I'm sure I'm not alone and many other members across the country who also enjoy members with benefits 😏😏

 

[williamalex1]

Our numbers are set out in the rules and constitution as to how many we can have in each section (male, female and junior members)

Same at our club, set at 500 full time members, but I doubt they would turn away a few extra, especially associate members.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I do not think like that, have played some 'rubbish' courses that I would love to go back to more than a number of the top 100 course I have played. I do like to have variety. Think I am much more of okis mind set with regards to like playing different courses .

Would not liked to have missed out playing courses like church stretton, Bamburgh, Kendal and Kirby Lonsdale that spring to mind and want to really return to but are far from top courses and rated worse than a few of the courses I am member at, I also travel down to Essex for a couple of days a year to play on as such 'poor' courses and wouldn't wish to miss playing them. Everyone to their own

And how do I know if a course is rubbish; because I've been and played it.

I have an open mind to playing any course; I'm a little more selective when it comes to paying for a green fee, as per the original post.

 

[Grant85]

With regards to getting more people on the golf course.

St. Andrews Old Course has 40,000 rounds on it a year, even with every Sunday off. No doubt a lot of wear and tear and yes a lot of green keepers and ideal natural conditions for a golf course.

But for the most part, members clubs with 400 or 500 members will have an empty tee for a lot of time during the week and Sunday afternoons.

A golf course at a members club with decent sized greens, spending several hundred thousand om staff and maintenance is almost certainly being under utilised.

 

[Slab]

Curious as to why don't you want to play the same course every week? Conditions are never the same from one day to another so the course is never the same.

For my experience and having moved from almost exclusively playing a single course, to rotating through half a dozen courses & no home course (with a different course almost every week) I didn't think i'd like the latter option but found I really enjoyed the variation much more than I thought I would (the travel is really the only downside)

The fundamental changes in design & environment from one course to another, including different grasses, fairways, greens etc (even different sand in the bunkers) makes for more of an all round challenge of the game. I don't doubt I'd be scoring better if all my rounds were at one course too as I'd learn all the course and weather variables from a single course and how to play in them much more easily than 6 courses
I know for the challenge someones 'home course is different everyday' (but its not really) As you say its typically just the conditions that change, so the wind might change direction on the odd occasion, it might be a tad warmer, wetter, the tees might go forward etc etc but inherently it is the same course with the same holes, same grass, same hazards etc etc same menu in the clubhouse even (without even considering the differences in links, parkland and the rest)

Due to a new course opening very near me this last 12mnths has seen about half my rounds played at this one course with the rest still spread around and while I never get bored, I do yearn for the other courses if I haven't been out and about to somewhere else for three or four weeks running

When I get back to the Uk I'll probably join one place (probably manage to drop the handicap too) but other than the odd day-out I'll likely miss out on this variety because I've paid a membership (and I'll gain the benefits of that membership) but I will lose out when it comes to the sheer scale of variation in the game

 

[shortgame]

But for the most part, members clubs with 400 or 500 members will have an empty tee for a lot of time during the week and Sunday afternoons.

except it's not possible to get round for 18 holes in winter if you tee off in the afternoon.

Realistically you have from 8am or so until around noon. Even at 8 min intervals that's 30 tee times.

With this winter being so mild and the membership so active, those 30 tee times are in huge demand every weekend. Any additional members would mean more (all paying hefty joining fees and subs) would be unable to play.

Simply put, the club is at it's limit - membership is always in demand and could easily attract more members (and visitors) but there isn't enough room.

Sure they could play a few holes in the afternoon but after paying for membership you'd want/expect to be able to play 18 holes and to enter comps. I know I would.

There's 2 local clubs I know well that are in this envious position - one a members club with an outstanding course and another (proprietary) with great facilities (gym, spa, restaurants etc).


The members club accept it's full but us always considering it's options.

The proprietary club blindly keeps on adding members compounding the issue (but making a lot of profit).

 

[Slab]

except it's not possible to get round for 18 holes in winter if you tee off in the afternoon.

Realistically you have from 8am or so until around noon. Even at 8 min intervals that's 30 tee times.

With this winter being so mild and the membership so active, those 30 tee times are in huge demand every weekend. Any additional members would mean more (all paying hefty joining fees and subs) would be unable to play.

Simply put, the club is at it's limit - membership is always in demand and could easily attract more members (and visitors) but there isn't enough room.

Sure they could play a few holes in the afternoon but after paying for membership you'd want/expect to be able to play 18 holes and to enter comps. I know I would.

There's 2 local clubs I know well that are in this envious position - one a members club with an outstanding course and another (proprietary) with great facilities (gym, spa, restaurants etc).


The members club accept it's full but us always considering it's options.

The proprietary club blindly keeps on adding members compounding the issue (but making a lot of profit).

On the flip side is the same club solid with 280 players on a sunny Thursday in August, probably not and if not its under-utilized on that day just as it would be oversubscribed in your scenario

As with most things its a compromise with a members club 'probably' erring on the side of caution (which leaves them missing out financially but with happier members, where a resort/propriety club on the other side of over subscribed

The ideal would probably be a members club set up with the marketing infrastructure & wherewithal to shift the majority of the excess tee times in slack periods (which there are a lot of given the uk seasonality of the game)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You can’t smash the living daylights out of a golf course packing them in from 8 till 4 each day - it’s just not good for a course. They need breathing spaces, time for the course to recover a little , time for the greenkeepers to do work. We have quiet gaps during the week and we feel no need to fill them up with green fees.

Those quiet times people know as well so can use them for a bit of single rounds or arrange matches when they know they won’t be held up etc - clubs don’t need to “milk the asset “ - and any decent greenkeeper will tell you that any course needs free gaps where the course has very minimal footfall on them.